Re: Microsoft is in deep trouble and now it is going to die
- From: "John Slade" <hhitman86@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:51:49 -0700
"KDT" <scarface_74@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1177337777.095326.112170@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
John Slade wrote:
"KDT" <scarface_74@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
http://www.informationarbitrage.com/2007/04/msft_and_japan_.html
Ten million Xbox 360s have been sold as of January 2007. There were
24
million Xboxes sold. That makes the Xbox 360 the current champ among this
generation of consoles. It's contemporaries are the Wii and Playstation
3.
Lets see where to start...
1. Each XBox is sold at a lost, the original poster said that the
video game industry was "highly profitable" for Microsoft.
2. The Playstation *2* is still outselling the XBox 360.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/12/business/game.php
The Playstation 2 is last generation. I was talking about this
generation.
3. The WII is currently outselling the XBox 360
http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Nintendo-Wii-Outsells-Xbox-and-PS3/story.xhtml?story_id=10000BCKRKVO
The actual sales figures still show that the Xbox has sold over ten
million units as of January and the Wii has sold six million as of February.
You have to wait to see the latest figures to make this statement. The Wii
might have sold better over a short period of time but, overal the Xbox 360
has sold more and is still selling well.
4.There have only been five million XBOX 360's sold (see above link).
There have been ten million Xbox 360s sold. See link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360
The figures you show are for the US market ONLY. Please read what you
post.
"t is likely that the trio will continue to duke it out for market dominance
in the coming years, adding more games and services to capture larger pieces
of the $13 billion U.S. video game market."
You haven't a clue. That's what the Mac kooks do people. They will put
up one month's worldwide sales against Microsofts US only sales. They love
to skew numbers.
But if you want to include XBOX+XBox 360 you have to compare it to
Playstation 2 + Playstation 3 sells.
No. I said this generation of consoles. This generation includes The
Xbox 360, Playstation 3 and the Wii. Of these three, the Xbox 360 has sold
more units woldwide than both of the competitors combined.
The Playstation 2 sold well over
100 million units by itself and is still outselling the XBOX 360.
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/04/playstation-2-thriving-or-failing/
You want to include the Playstation 2 because you know my figures about
Xbox 360 sales were correct. They are selling more Xbox 360s than
Playstation 3s and Wiis combined. Current numbers show this and you have
only presented US Xbox 360 sales.
5. The WII makes money on each unit sold.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6157690.html
You just told me that Gamespot was not a good source for financial
information. But I will take it as fact for the time of the posting. However
as the Wii drops in price, they will be sold at a loss at outlets like
Circuit City and other stores. Sales will slow down and the price will drop,
the same goes for the Xbox 360.
"Gaming has been a disastrous endeavor for Microsoft, particularly
from an investment perspective;"
"Well, after five years and over $21 billion invested all they've got
to show for it is $5.4 billion of cumulative operating losses, and
Xbox 360 doesn't appear to be the silver bullet to turn things
around."
Microsoft will make the money back in sales of video games over the
long term. Sony is losing money on each Playstation 3 sold and I'm sure
the
Wii loses money too. That money will be made back over the years in game
sales.
During the whole XBOX lifecycle. Microsoft *never* made a profit on
the XBox even after including revenue on the games.
Actually games like Halo and Halo 2 have made profits and have offset
bigger losses. The losses are small when compared to the big picture over
time. There are still games being made for Xbox and they will eventually
turn big profits. I never said that they didn't have losses, I said that it
was a monemaking business. Some businesses make money over longer times.
The playstation
*2* is still profitable for Sony.
That's because of game sales.
I also find the numbers suspect as they do not show net profits and
losses. I read in this article on Gamespot that Microsoft's Home and
Entertainment division made a profit. So how does that square with your
figures?
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6117307.html?&print=1
You did notice that this article was in 2005, didn't you?
Yep and it turned a proft, you said it never turned a profit. You were
wrong. Profits are quarter to quarter, or year to year. This shows that the
Microsoft Home and Entertainment division did turn a profit at one time. You
said they never turned a profit. What the author of the article tried to do
was show that they never made a profit. That is a lie.
ook like it's loosing money like crazy.
I think this is another Mac kook attempt to skew numbers to make
Microsoft l
So I guess MS is also a Mac kook. Since their own 10-K shows that the
Entertainment division lost money.
And they made a profit too. Then they will make more profits from video
game sales.
No one said that Microsoft is losing money. The discussion was about
the XBox ("Home and Entertainment Division") losing money.>
Here's another article.
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=317219
And look at the *title* of the article. "Xbox Posts $164 Million
Operating Loss"
Isn't that what I just said?
We've been over this or did you miss it. They sell the consoles at a
loss and expect to make money from game sales.
But why go by what gamespot says? Look at Microsoft's 10K
http://google.brand.edgar-online.com/fetchFilingFrameset.aspx?FilingID=4622672&Type=HTML
Home & Entertainment
2004 - $1.337 billion loss
2005 - $.485 billion loss
2006 - 1.267 billion loss
That's over two years. This is longer term than that. Also those
losses are small when compared to how much can be made five years down the
road. How long did it take the Playstation 2 to turn a profit? Long term is
a lot more than a couple of years. It's longer than five years down the
road. We're talking at least ten years down the road here. That may seem
like a long time to most people but when talking about profits, it's pretty
short. Microsoft's philosophy has made them 90% of the computer market and
they are now leading in the current game console market.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/209764_msftearns28.html?dpfrom=th
In the black means profit. You guys love to lie don't you?
"The company's Home and Entertainment division, which includes its Xbox
video-game console, achieved its first quarterly operating profit, boosted
by strong holiday sales of products, including Microsoft's blockbuster "Halo
2" video game."
>
Bottom line is Apple moved into moneymaking markets.
Even if you take away iPod sells, Apple would still be more profitable
than every other computer manufacturer except for Dell and HP. Just
look at the financial statements from Gateway and Toshiba (the other
two companies in the top five). Or even Sony and Lenova.
That's because Apple is good at selling to a group that will buy
whatever they sell no matter what. It helps to have some kooks to buy no
mater what.
Apple just announced it sold it's 100 Millionth iPod. Most iPod users
are Windows users. So does that make everyone who bought an iPod, a
kook?
No. But their computer division sells to the kooks who will buy anything
Apple puts out. That's what kept them alive before the iPod came out.
Microsoft moved into moneymaking areas like video game consoles and
games.
Since when was a division that loss $1.2 Billion dollars in 2006 a
"moneymaking" area?
When the item they take a loss on is a video game console and
they
sell games for it. That's exactly what other console making companies do.
Not Nintendo. But Sony at least made up for its losses through video
game sales during the PS2 generation and now the PS2 sells at a profit
and is still the number one video game console,. Microsoft *never*
made money on the original XBox, including licenses.
I've shown that in one quarter they did make a profit. The games are
still selling and the division will turn a profit. Microsoft is such a big
company that the billons they loose might sime huge to a company that makes
less than 10% of what Microsoft makes. Microsoft did not become so big by
making short term investments, they slowly build up their market share.
Microsoft was very smart, they sold thier OS to the masses and that's why
they're 90% of the market. Apple sold their OS to closed systems, it failed,
and they switched to Unix and put a GUI over it. Apple made real money when
they sold the iPod to the masses. Pretty soon Apple will put less and less
into OS X and the Mac. The Mac is a PC now and it runs Windows, Apple is
preparing you for when OS X will die off or be offered to all PC users.
John
.
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