Re: OT Article: Another year, another wage loss
- From: Michelle Ronn <micron@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 06:44:13 -0700
On 2006-09-05 00:23:57 -0700, Snit <SNIT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> said:
"Michelle Ronn" <micron@xxxxxxxxxxx> stated in post
2006090500065275249-micron@invalidnet on 9/5/06 12:06 AM:
On 2006-09-04 20:46:39 -0700, Snit <SNIT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> said:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/09/02/
another_year_another_wage_loss/
OR <http://snipurl.com/vxno>
-----
Another year, another wage loss
...
And that extra day of rest is needed more than ever. Government statistics
show that the typical family works about 500 more hours a year than families
did 30 years ago, because it takes two incomes to make it. Even so, family
incomes are failing to keep pace with the cost of living.
...
The Census Bureau reported that median incomes for working-age families were
down again, for the fifth straight year. Real median income for households
under age 65 is down by 5.4 percent since 2000, even though the economy has
grown every year. All of that gain has gone to upper-bracket people and
corporate profits.
...
"The public thinks that workers were better off a generation ago on every
key dimension of worker life -- be it wages, benefits, retirement plans,
on-the-job stress, the loyalty they are shown by employers." And,
statistically, the public is right.
...
chief executives of nonprofit hospitals now routinely make more than $1
million. University presidents are not far behind.
...
The economy's productivity increased by a remarkable 33.5 percent between
1995 and 2005, but real wages have declined since 2000. Employer-provided
health coverage declined from 69 percent in 1979 to 56 percent in 2004. The
top 1 percent's share of interest, dividends, and capital gains has risen
from 37.8 percent in 1979 to 57.5 percent in 2003.
Politically, it's evident what is occurring. Those in a position to capture
astronomical incomes are awarding themselves an ever-larger share of the
national economic pie. Meanwhile, ordinary incomes, job security, health
security, and retirement security are eroding.
...
But if a great many middle-class and poor Americans have given up on
politics, you can be sure that the economic elite is invested in politics as
never before. The changes in the tax code and regulatory laws and workplace
practices that benefit America's super-rich did not just happen, either.
They are the result of relentless maneuvering by the financial elite and its
political allies.
-----
And yet there are those in CSMA who sound like they get their news from
Rush.
This class envy crap really ticks me off.
Asking for a reasonable system is not class "envy". Asking to be able to do
an honest days work and get an honest days pay is not class "envy". Asking
to be able to have reasonable health care when one gives one's life to the
"system" is not class "envy.
What from the article do you think is class envy?
I work 70+ hours a week. I pay more in taxes than the average American
makes in a year.
Your personal story, no offense, is of little interest. Sounds like you do
not even fit the group of people being discussed above - the average working
joe... someone who may work as many hours as you but does not, clearly make
so much they would pay that much in taxes.
Please explain WHY I should pay $1 more in taxes than anyone else?
You have a lot more to lose. Taxes go toward paying to protect you and your
stuff. You have more stuff - you pay more.
Let me ask you: do you (or your company) ever get any sort of deductions for
business meals or entertainment? If you do, why should I pay a penny to
help support *that*?
There is also the cost of having a reasonable safety net - something that
any wealthy nation should have. You make money - yup, it will cost you.
Tough.
This does *not* imply, of course, I support a welfare state. But people who
are incapacitated or even down on their luck - for a while - *should* be
helped. Welcome to society.
I trust the private sector to take care of people in need. I trust them to be more efficient than the government.
Also, please define the middle class.... $78,000USD a year puts you in
the top 20% of wage earners in the US (source: IRS). $100,000USD a year
puts you in the TOP 5%...
1 in 20 people in the US makes $100,000 USD a year or more. Is that
rich??? That is hardly a living wage on the west coast. I know many
people out here that make $150,000 USD or more a year, and live modest
middle class life styles.
So? The difference in cost of living in different parts of the country is
of little interest or relation to the story.
Actually, it is totally relevant to the story. The story is about the supposed rich getting away with not paying taxes. My point, what do you consider rich? Top 20%? Top 5%? The way I see it, getting into the top 5% is not all that rich. Many people on the West Coast have incomes that make them appear to be "rich" to someone in the mid west, yet, it is just getting by on the coast.
Don't even get me started on the "fairness" of the death tax. What
right does the government have to take money that has already paid
taxes on it? You get a gimme on the first $2 million, but then the tax
rate skyrockets fast. If you busted your tail all your life, anything
after that second $2 million gets taxed at 47%!
In the case of Bill Gates and Buffet, do you believe that the
government would do better work with the money after they die, or their
foundations will.
Go read the Newsweek article on Buffet and why he donated the money
(and that he doesn't get a dime in tax breaks over $4 million, yet he
gives billions away). See that his wife's estate paid more than
$80,000,000 USD in taxes when she died. How fair is that? I don't think
anyone can use $80 million in government resources in any amount of
lifetimes.
Newsflash: I am sure it did not go to one person.
Note: that does not mean I think the tax system is fair.
If these mythical "super rich" people get a tax break at all, they are
still paying MILLIONS a year in taxes. People seem to forget that one.
NOBODY gets a free ride.
The wealthiest corporations in the country pay less than 5% taxes on their
income. Don't tell me that the wealthy don't know that and "hide" their
money in such things.
Are we talking corporations now, or are we talking people? I love hearing about this "conspiracy theory" that wealthy people hide money from the IRS. Hate to tell you, it does not exist. The wealthiest American individuals pay MILLIONS in taxes in a year. Compared to the average Joe out there paying in $10-20,000 a year.
Don't forget, when you use a legal shelter, the "rich" are losing access to any money that they shelter. That is they get the tax break in the first place. If they want access to the money, they pay taxes on it.
The way the tax system is structured is progressive. The more you make, the more you pay.
Anyway... that has little to do with the article's main focus.
It does. One of the points of the article is that the rich don't pay taxes, and that the government focuses on them for tax breaks.
News flash: Look at the percent of total tax revenue that the FEW pay... The top 20% pay MOST of the total tax bill, I believe the top 5% pay close to 50-60%, and the top 1% pay somwhere around 30% of the total tax bill that the IRS takes in.
You have the few supporting the many.
I also like to see how these articles define "rich". The income that puts you in the top 5% is just getting by on the coasts.
.
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