Re: Why Its Pointless To Argue With Global Warming Believers

ZnU wrote:

In article <j4Sdnau4Lsfb3x7ZRVn-qg@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
GreyCloud <mist@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


ZnU wrote:


In article <58mdnbGPYuuK_R_ZnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
GreyCloud <mist@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



George Graves wrote:



In article <jJWdnc-6spVmShzZRVn-jg@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
GreyCloud <mist@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:




George Graves wrote:




In article <1hgd742.1je89e3xn3v7kN%Lars.Traeger@xxxxxxxx>,
Lars.Traeger@xxxxxxxx (Lars Träger) wrote:





George Graves <gmgraves@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:





Less people = less pollutants. That doesn't make any sense?

USA = less people, China = less polution.

Things make less sense when the USA is involved.


What makes you think that I'm excluding the USA? We need to trim our population back to about 150 million (about half) just like the rest of the world.


As long as kids keep hopping into bed, the population will continue to rise.


Kids hopping into bed together is not so much the problem as are the puritanical sexual mores which keep these kids from freely obtaining contraceptives or being able to have free access to abortions when "accidents" happen.




The only remaining question will be when will the system collapse on itself?


Its entropic. The quality of life deteriorates a little each year and people don't tend to notice it so much. Some even delude themselves that increasing population and eroding life quality and freedoms is a GOOD thing.


I know. It is what denial is made of.
I remember in the 70s that I could afford a new house, a new car, and buy an Apple and still have money left over for investments.
In the late 80s, I could only afford a new car.
Now I can't afford a new car, let alone a used one... but I can afford a new iMac because the price has dropped since the 70s.
When I plot my purchasing power from the 70s to now, it is just a line going downhill. I don't know what will happen or what it will look like at the bottom.


Housing is more expensive, but practically everything else is cheaper than it was in the '70s. It doesn't always feel that way, because in some cases the only goods available are of much, much higher quality than they were in the '70s. With cars, for instance, a '70s-quality car could be built of an absurdly low price, but it wouldn't be legal to sell as a new car, because of modern-day emissions and safety standards, and if it were, not many people would buy one.

Something similar has happened with health care. We could provide 1970s health care at pretty cheap prices. But not many people want 1970s health care, so the market isn't set up for it.

Another factor that makes people feel poorer is that there's just a lot more stuff to buy these days. Subtract everything that didn't exist in the 1970s from your expenses (Internet access, most of the 150-300 TV channels you probably get, your iPod, your DVD player, your cell phone, etc.) and see how much money you'd save.

And, of course, the gains in income since the 1970s have not been equitably distributed. Here's a neat little chart I put together a while back:

Household incomes in 2001 dollars[1] -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Household Lowest Second Third Fourth Highest Top 5 Rank Fifth Fifth Fifth Fifth Fifth Percent 1975 8,798 20,891 34,181 49,637 86,443 127,421 2001 10,136 25,468 42,629 66,839 145,970 260,464 Change: +15.2% +21.9% +24.7% +34.6% +68.8% +104.4% -------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/histinc/h03.html

This has more to do with Republicans than with population increases.


No, it has to do with the USD decline over time.


The above figures above are in constant-dollars. They take inflation based on the consumer price index into account. IOW, what you see above is a real average increase in consumer buying power.


People look at money in the wrong perspective. Take Gold... when you view it as a constant, then the USD is in steep decline.


This is almost entirely meaningless. First, you can't meaningfully compare with gold prices prior 1971, because the price of gold was effectively set by government fiat prior to that.

Around 1972, Nixon took the US off the gold standard.
That left the USD to float. To bolster that USD, Nixon used oil as a prop.
The USD is now supported only by blind trust in paper that has no backing whatsoever.


Second, gold is now cheaper than it was in the early '80s.

Manipulated by gold market traders and held down deliberately.


Third, the price of gold is dependent largely on the supply of gold. If e.g. the US economy grows faster in real terms than the gold supply, one would expect gold prices to go up -- this doesn't demonstrate the USD is in decline, it just demonstrates there are more dollars chasing after a smaller amount of one specific item.


Which means that gold is stable and the USD is in decline.
How far will the dollar fall? No one knows, but it is falling.
All you have to do is compare your buying power in the past to what you can buy today. It is less.



--
Where are we going?
And why am I in this handbasket?
.

Relevant Pages