Re: A cheapo Acer laptop matches Macbook Pro in benchmarks!

In article <C078D4DF.4D11E%SNIT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Snit <SNIT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Josh McKee" <jtmckee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> stated in post
jtmckee-2608B3.09001629042006@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on 4/29/06 8:00 AM:

In article <C07835EE.4D087%SNIT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Snit <SNIT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Josh McKee" <jtmckee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> stated in post
jtmckee-383027.19401928042006@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on 4/28/06 6:40 PM:

In article <C0780570.4D05A%SNIT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Snit <SNIT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[ snip ]

We seem to agree that people who know both systems well tend to prefer
Macs.

But that doesn't prove that they're more productive.

Certainly leans that way.

Not at all. It only means that they prefer Macs.

Generally when professionals know multiple tools and prefer one it is
because that tool allows them to get their job done better.

All it means that they prefer one tool over another. To draw any more
conclusions we'd have to know why they prefer said tool over the others.

I'm willing to agree with you...if you can demonstrate this is the case.
So far all I've seen are opinions that this is true.

I think we have established that you are not accepting the current data.

At this time I'm only questioning it. I have neither decided to accept
or reject it without further information.

Let's assume they are valid - we have no solid reason to think otherwise:
have they convinced you?

Why would I want to assume that they are valid? It's there validity, or
lack of, that's the fueling this discussion.

No matter how valid and numerous studies are there are people who will
demand more. I believe you are in that group, at least in this case.

That's because I have reason to question the conclusions of these
studies.

Keep in mind that every study we can find supports the idea that the Mac
allows a user to be more productive / get a better ROI, every expert opinion
we can find agrees, and even you have stated you believe the Mac is more
"refined", something I believe is part of what leads to the Macs better ROI.

It does no good to reference studies where the conclusions are in
question. Believe it or not you haven't provided that many studies or
expert opinions given the size of the market.

If details clearly matter that's a clear indication a studies results
can be manipulated one way or the other by selecting details favoring
the desired outcome.

I do not buy the idea that all these studies all these years are the
product
of some one directional bias of so many people; such a rather extreme
position certainly has not been shown to be the case.

Do you admit that the outcome can be manipulated by carefully selecting
details that are known to favor the desired outcome?

Sure; I just see no reason to believe there has been some vast conspiracy or
group bias that has influenced every study and expert opinion we can find.

I don't think that there's a conspiracy. But I don't find it
unreasonable that people who are fanatical about their choice of
computer, as Mac users are well known to be, all reach the same
conclusion.

They've been a long time Macintosh company. Why would they suddenly
switch to Windows? My conclusion about this particular example is that a
study favored Windows but the results were ignored and the Macs
retained. IMO this is a poor example supporting the Macintosh.

It is your opinion, but not one that can be well supported.

What do you mean?

You have this opinion but I have not seen strong support for it.

You reference a study where a company was going to switch to Windows but
that switch was blocked based on someone's opinion. To me that's not
favorable to the Macintosh.

Even if true for this one study, of course, that would not imply all studies were
the same.

No, nor did I say that it did. I am evaluating each study individually.
But it does show the opposite of what you're arguing. And it would be
that "one" study that you've asked for :)

I do not know the exact cert, but it was a networking cert of some sort.
I know it focused on OS X Server.

If someone who is unfamiliar with a particular product is able to sit
down and obtain a certification for that product then that certification
is pretty much worthless.

To some extent I agree: but if someone knows other similar tools and is able
to "guess" based on what makes sense what the given product should do that
speaks well for the product. And the person being tested. :)

Not in my opinion. Any certification that can be passed merely by
sitting down and guessing the correct answers is worthless.

I don't recall having said that the menu bar is at the top of the screen
on Windows. I merely stated that one could maximize the Window and
eliminate the problem.

Criteria like this is exactly why I question the studies. The fact that
a study focused on this criteria leads me to believe that said study was
intended to favor the Macintosh.

Maximizing the windows does not eliminate the problem; the menu is still not
at the top of the screen and therefore not "infinitely" tall.

I'm not sure it is a problem.

But we're not seeing a significant, if any, move in that direction. With
a 36% advantage I would think that the Macintosh would at least be
making some inroads right now.

What makes you think that? Popularity need not be tied to the fitness of
a tool

I don't recall saying it was. What I said was Apple doesn't appear to be
making inroads despite the fact they're supposed to have a 36% advantage
over Windows.

Not sure what point you are trying to make.

I'm saying that the 36% advantage likely does not exist.

I have seen too many different studies from different sources plus had
too
much direct experience to have any serious doubt about the Macs better
ROI.

Being a Mac user I would think that maybe you're not as objective. After
all...that's why you're using a Mac :)

I use both Mac and Windows... and learned them at the same time.

Which doesn't mean you're being objective. Though I think you're more
objective than many.

I would say the same about you: when all available data (or at least the
vast majority) points in one direction, it makes sense to lean that
direction. This is more true, of course, when one has extensive experience
that also supports the conclusion.

It makes sense because you want to believe in that data. As it is the
conclusions are suspect.

Josh
.

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