Re: suncomm, drm, intel

On 2005-12-13 07:37:35 -0800, Buzz <buzz@xxxxxxxx> said:

Michelle Ronn wrote: 


I do have some more information.

A guy that I work with has been playing with this as well. He actually spoke with "Rob" today over at Sunncomm tech support. Twice.

If you have a message from Rob before today regarding the support of this software, you will need to check again, as Rob now has new information:

Here is the detail:

Tiger "broke" the installation of the MediaMax software, and the devs are working to fix this.
This is not the same thing as saying the software does not work under Tiger.

But, the software does not work under Tiger. I don't see how that is different.

Which part of the software does not work under Tiger is the question here. The application may not work PROPERLY under Tiger. That does not mean that it is not doing something.

I will agree that the software is broken, and does not work properly, or as the developers intended.

I will also attest that this is not by design. The CD makes no reference to Tiger not being supported. The installation does not make a reference to Tiger not being supported. The only reference that I can find that it does not work under Tiger is one reference, obecured by a question on a FAQ.

Why do I think that Sunncomm intends for the to work under OS X?
- The back of the CD, reference is made to the Mac being OK for playback and ripping.
- The brochure on SunnComm's MediaMax specifically states "Mac Protection and Compatibility" stating that "For the first time, content can be played and protected on a Mac with the same experience enjoyed on a PC..." Here is the link: http://www.sunncomm.com/Brochure/SunncommPage2.htm
- the kernel extensions that are part of the payload, the plists, the ..NIB files...
- The MAC SPECIFIC EULA (called ENGLISH-mac.TXT) clearly states that you need to agree to the EULA in order to play the audio content on your computer. Here is the quote from the "EULA":

"Before you can play the audio files on YOUR COMPUTER or create and/or transfer the DIGITAL CONTENT to YOUR COMPUTER, you will need to review and agree to be bound by an end user license agreement or “EULA”"

- to sum up this up, the EULA states that the software on the CD is the mechanism to do this. Again, no reference to what versions of Mac software do work or do not work.

I did find the reference that the application is not compatible with Tiger under the reference question of "This CD will not play on my new Mac". Here is the link for future reference:
http://tickets.sunncomm.com/selfhelp/addbook_readarticle.php?articleID=106




The intention was that it was to work under OS X, but now with Tiger it does not. The MediaMaxx software does a partial and incomplete installation. This would imply that the software would work under Panther, but I have not had the chance to check that out.

The "fix" to remove the software will not work, because the original software installation was incomplete.

Removing all visible components of the software does not fix the problem. A component or setting still exists such that whenever a CD with Mediamax is put into the system, OS X tries to execute START.APP on the CD.

William is waiting on either a working version of the software for Tiger that will install and then be correctly removed by the tool, or a patch that will remove this "alternate" functionality of the installation.

So, the software that doesn't work, but you installed anyway, hosed the system. What a surprise.

Sorry, this is a bad design plain and simple. No excuses. If the application does not work on Tiger, then the installing application should work properly. By working properly, it should recognize that the OS that is running is not one that it is compatible with. It should message the user appropriately, end execution, and clean up after itself.

You claim to be a developer, yet you also do not seem to understand this.



Whatever the case, this is a piece of malware. It is targeted at OS X, and it is in the wild.

Not by any definition of malware that I know. This is legitimate software from a known source that doesn't work. 

Legitimate software that is designed to:
Hide iteself from the user.
Not to be uninstalled.
Interfere with other programs that the user is legally allowed to run.

Gee, that sounds like prefectly legitimate to me.

Maybe I am wrong here, but I believe that the user should be able to be in control of the system here. If the end user should decide not to abide by the terms of the EULA at a later date, then the user should be allowed to remove the software without affecting the performance of their equipment.

Sunncomm does not intend to allow this. You have to contact Sunncomm directly to do this. This should be part of the installation package.



Earlier someone referenced that it was publically posted that Mediamax did not support 10.4. Could you provide a link? The only stuff I can find is that it works on Mac. No specific versions are listed as supported or not supported.



It is on the Sunncomm web site.

By the way, where is the new information that you said he had?

The difference between "The software does not work" and the "software does not work properly or as intended".

My reference is with William's two conversations directly with Rob. I will also state that I am a third party to this, and not a witness.

From what I understand, the first conversation was similar to your
argument. This stuff is not supported, therefore, it does not work. Here is the removal tool.

When the removal software did not remove the problem, the second conversation was a bit different. The difference was Rob has spoken with the Mac developers. From what I am told, that conversation was more along the lines of "Yeah, we know there is a problem, and we don't have a fix for it yet".

The installer is making changes that they don't know how to back out of, or don't want to admit to. Different problem.

The software is doing something. Sunncomm's tech support does not know how to uninstall it at this time.

I am not one to blame bad intentions on plan, when stupidity is a perfectly logical explanation. However, something is not right here.

When I look at what the PC version of this stuff does, and then I am led to believe that Sunncomm is attempting to achieve feature parity with the Mac product, I get a bit concerned.

On another note:
When looking at the .nib files that are on the CD. There are network access classes. I understand that this may be needed from what I read in the EULA. The EULA does state that the software will only work on one machine. It would be easy to have the software "phone home", compare a hash key from the current machine with one from the original installation, and then authorize the playback of the CD. Microsoft has used a similar technology for software installation of Windows XP. It is on the web already that the Sunncomm software does phone home on the PC version.

I ask to be excused for not blindly trusting the intentions of Sunncomm on this one.
What makes up this hash? What if I change my memory configuration? Will the hash change, and then I cannot purchase my legitimately purchased CD any more?
What information are they transmitting? Am I supposed to trust that because the EULA states that " However, the SOFTWARE will not be used at any time to collect any personal information from you, whether stored on YOUR COMPUTER or otherwise. "

Sunncomm already states in the EULA that protection of the content comes first, my fair use rights come second:
"The SOFTWARE is intended to protect the audio files embodied on the CD, and it may also facilitate your use of the DIGITAL CONTENT."

.

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