Re: When is a Mac no longer a Mac?

In article <mr-D496F6.18552809122005@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Sandman <mr@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>In article <DoNotSpamthegoat4-B09319.00241909122005@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> "B.B." <DoNotSpamthegoat4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> OK, so Apple's going to go to Intel CPUs. Now Macs are no longer
>> differentiated by a slow clock and superior instruction set--we've got
>> the same hackjob cluster*** on speed PCs have been using for decades
>> now. And over the last few years Apple's gone away from SCSI, NuBus,
>> ADB, Localtalk, etc. And PCs have picked up USB, dropped floppies, and
>> colored their cases. The hardware's basically merging between the two
>> platforms.
>
>Who cares about hardware? Either platform has enough umph for 99% of the user
>base.

Lots of users care about hardware. Here's a bit of amusement if you
know your way around google: comb though some old CSMA stuff during the
PPC vs. x86 fights of old. Back then, the superior ISA of PPC (or even
the 68k) was touted. Did it really matter? Apparently not unless you
needed a high precision FPU, then 68k & 68881 was a good option. But
for 99% out there, the hardware then had more than enough umph.
Could just file it under mindless pissing matches between advocates.
However, you can glean an idea of their respective merits and failures.
Do the same for SCSI, ADB, NuBus, etc. All had their pros and cons
depending on what you needed or wanted. Who gives a *** about gigabit
ethernet these days? People who need it and people who want to compare
computer penises.
But the difference is that back in the day, there was a tangible
difference. Soon enough it'll be PC with Windows vs. PC with OSX vs. PC
with Linux vs. etc.

>> On the software side, the classic MacOS is gone, replaced by Unixy
>> stuff. And like it or not, higher up on the UI level lots of
>> Windows-like stuff has been creeping in. Copy/paste files, window
>> minimize, close box moved, the Dock, motherfucking wizards, etc.
>
>All of which none "came" from Windows.

What do you mean?

>> So what about Mac today is still Mac? Please try to stay away from
>> fuzzy buzzword bull*** like "OSX is full of innovation, which is what
>> Macintosh has always been about." That's meaningless crap. What actual
>> property of Macs today sets them apart from PCs?
>
>Mac OS X. That was easy.

Ah, but can you get into specifics? How is OSX tangibly different
from Windows?

>> Now that Ragosta's gone I figure a realistic discussion might be
>> possible as long as everyone keeps Snit kill filed.
>
>Well, B.b., you didn't really set the tone for a "realistic discussion", now
>did you? It's quite clear that you're anti-"Mac OS X in its current
>incarnation" and quite anti-Intel. If you're looking to be persuaded about the
>good things of Macs of today, you're not setting up the chess table correctly.
>
>Some things that set OSX apart from "PCs" are, but not limited to:
>
>Quartz Extreme
>AppleTalk
>Spotlight
> Smart Folders everywhere
>Exposé
>SSH
>Airtunes
>Good interface
>Core Image
>Core Video
>iLife
>iWork
>Pro applications
>Unix foundation
>
>Plus, OSX has the functions built in for lots of applications to use in their
>own context, like quartz extreme enabled transitions and stuff like that, that
>just help unifying the UI in OSX in a predictable way.

OK, that makes sense to me. But let me color some of that from the
POV of a user with old hardware. G4/400, 384M RAM, 28GB disk space,
upgraded video card. Way above and beyond Apple's published system
requirements for OSX.
Quartz extreme does run on my video card, but it only makes a
marginal difference because OSX spends an inordinate amount of time
thrashing my disk. For whatever reason, OSX can't cleanly juggle disk
activity and graphics through Quartz extreme. Minimizing a window with
stagger or even stick if a disk read (which I assume is a VM swap)
occurs during it.
Apple Talk is Local Talk, which is as dead as ADB.
I don't have Spotlight, so can't comment.
Expose' is neat, but also exposes some of OSX's layering and event
issues. It's also of limited use on a small monitor. If you shrink all
of the windows, then some app open a window it gets confused and you can
find yourself with a window on top of the rest which isn't the focus.
SSH? You know where SSH came from, don't you? %man ssh
Airtunes: don't use, can't comment.
Good interface is kind of subjective. I'm not saying it's bad, but
good compared to what? Windows? Many millions use windows daily.
Windows could certainly use lots of improvements, but it's obviously not
terrible enough to stop most people.
Core Image/Core Video. I'm simply not sure what specifically you're
referring to here. Could you elaborate?
iLife is cute, I'll grant you that. I have no use for it, but it was
fun to play with at the store.
Is iWork's Pages based on AppleWorks? If so I hope they fixed some
bugs.
Pro applications is too non-specific.
A Unix foundation is not exactly something that sets Macs apart.

That's not to say I think your list is somehow "countered" in this
discussion. I just wanted to point out that all of those advantages are
not complete. There's a good deal of half assing going on at Apple, as
illustrated by the Finder's continuing sorry state.
So I'm worried that Apple is trying to sustain itself on momentum and
bull***, which is what they did back in the 90's. Back then it nearly
got them killed because MS didn't sit around and twiddle their thumbs,
nor did the freeware community. The only thing that kept some parts of
the Mac community back then was the huge divide in hardware and
software. It was simply expensive to abandon Apple.
If Apple repeats that mistake (and it looks like they're headed that
way) it's going to be far easier to jump ship if Windows or Linux should
outpace them.
That's what inspired the question: what's going to retain users?
Sure, a certain segment will stick with Apple to the bitter end no
matter what, but what about the other folks? With no hardware divide,
and with software stagnating unless you just out and out need multimedia
capabilities in every damned app, Apple looks to be losing their
advantages over the other options out there.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
.