Re: RIAA a bit heavy-handed you say?

In article <clund-0602F0.11064624102005@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
C Lund <clund@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> In article <nowhere-2CCB5D.07041023102005@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> Travelinman <nowhere@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > In article <clund-D79353.11064923102005@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> > C Lund <clund@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > IOW it's based on their say-so.
> > > > Under oath and under thread of felony penalties.
> > > Are you claiming this prevents dishonest behaviour among corporate
> > > bigwigs?
> > No. I'm saying that it discourages it. While there is undoubtedly some
> > fraud, the presumption is that SEC filings are legitimate.
>
> That's your presumption.
>
> > > > What is the penalty for your 'source' if they lie?
> > > Where's their motive for lying in the first place?
> > Making themselves look good.
>
> Which will backfire if they get caught lying.
>
> > Getting other artists to pay them to use
> > their studio.
>
> Yeah - 'cuz their studio is the only one in the US.
>
> > Getting suckers like you to believe that they're poor
> > helpless artists and buy their music. Just off the top of my head.
>
> Had to toss in an ad hominem, eh?
>
> > > > > And to requote from yesterday:
> > > > > "Even more mysterious, EMI's SG&A total went up 50% last year. You'd
> > > > > think they'd be getting the hang of how to use the Internet by now."
> > > > > http://www.azoz.com/news/truth12.html
> > > > > Why would EMI's SG&A suddenly bounce by 50%?
> > > > Maybe you should learn to read an annual report.
> > > That's not an answer.
> > Sure it is. You're just not bright enough to understand it.
>
> And again.
>
> > > > > > In the United States, corporate officers have to personally sign
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > financial reports that are filed with the Securities Exchange
> > > > > > Commission. There are severe criminal and civil penalties for
> > > > > > willful
> > > > > > mis-statements.
> > > > > So? That didn't prevent the kind of conduct we saw in Enron etc.
> > > > Yes, fraud has happened. But auditing today is vastly more detailed
> > > > than
> > > > it was just a few years ago.
> > > What makes you think this is a new development with the labels? And
> > > are they subject to the same kind of auditing as the "normal"
> > > businesses?
> > Any publicly traded company is subject to audits.
>
> And yet Enron got away with fraud for a very long time...
>
> > > > And even then, Enron got caught.
> > > Eventually. What makes you think everybody gets caught?
> > No one said that they do. What makes you think everyone is crooked?
>
> Not everybody. But don't you think it's slightly odd that a label has
> to sell at least quarter of a million copies of a product just to make
> sure both they and the artists break even?
>
> Doesn't this strike you as even slightly odd?
>
> Especially when the non-RIAA labels seem to do well with fewer sales?
>
> > > > He has plenty of motive to make them up.
> > > Where's W White's motive for supporting Albini's budget?
> > He didn't support it. He said that some of the numbers were reasonable.
> > That doesn't explain all the specific problems I cited.
>
> Here's what W White said about the budget and the thread at Albini's
> website:
>
> "His numbers to me seem ballpark, they can vary widely according to
> band/budget/label. It's a reasonably accurate rant, tho.
>
> The thread was pretty much spot on, according to my own personal
> observations in the industry. "
>
> Message-ID: <wtwjr-655DEE.19583714102005@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> Sounds to me he thinks Albini's budget is a reasonable example. Maybe
> he'll step in again later and clear this up himself.

It is reasonable, in the reality that each album and every band is
different, as is each label, but Albini's is a reasonable example to
prove his point.

The issue here is that someone is refusing to acknowledge the basic,
fundamental relationship between a band or artist, and is basing his
crass judgements and opinions on his flawed understanding of the
relationship.

What it comes down to is a band is a seperate, unique business entity.
They enter into a contract to provide a publisher with a finished
product, which the publisher manufactures and sells, and divides up the
profits with itself and it's contractual partner.

It's the exact same relationship between an author and a book publisher,
and an author is given an advance to cover his or her costs while they
write the book. That advance is a loan, must be paid back in full, and
is usually paid back through sales. The author is in no way responsible
for the book publisher's expenses.

Yet someone here cannot or will not understand that basic realtionship,
and further discussion of this topic is impossible while it stands that
way. I've never quite seen such utter pigheadedness or stubborn clinging
to a flawed and untrue premise to save a weak ego, and it's laughable.
.

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