Re: Looking at Macs from a PC user's perspective
- From: Mark Conrad <NoSpamDammit@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 16:56:23 GMT
In article <2005100706130938165%@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Jim wrote:
(lotsa good stuff of value to me)......
Whoops, thought thread was dead, thanks for responding, Jim.
> > 1) Security -
> > Granted, Windows XP is a lot less secure than OS X, however
> > knowledgable Window's users can hide behind good firewalls
> > so that the admittedly more vulnerable OS can't be reached.
>
> I spend a lot more time keeping my PC clean than my Mac. My time at
> the Mac is spent doing something productive...
Okay, that means that a PC user can't just hide behind his firewall,
without spending a lot of time "maintaining" his various security
measures.
> OOPS time to get off this NG!.
Don't you dare, your input is too valuable. :)
> > 3) Unix "integration" in the Mac -
> > Is Unix integration all it is cracked up to be? Are there
> > _substantial_ benefits to be had with the Mac/Unix combination,
> > versus just running a seperate Unix/Linux partition on a PC?
>
> I like the stability and security of Unix. I use SUN Solaris
> extensively at work. Mac OS X is Unix.. its not a seperate OS. Yes
> it had better be integrated. The Mac GUI is simple the best user
> interface to Unix. Period. Yes I have used most flavors of XWindows
> (KDE, Gnome, CDE, AIX) on Linux, Solaris and AIX. Mac OS X beats
> them all.. and windows as well, in my book.
Specifically:
> Mac OS X is Unix.. its not a seperate OS.
I disagree with the above line a little. Apple's _implementation_
of the underlying Unix comes very close to making it a de-facto
seperate operating system.
You can't have it both ways:
1) Claiming that OS X _is_ Unix.
2) Claiming that the average OS X user never needs to use Unix, that
they can instead use the Apple GUI interface 100% of the time.
....because that Apple GUI interface is not a part of Unix, and can't be
merely added to Unix without heavy modification of the "guts" of Unix.
So as far as I am concerned, OS X is _not_ Unix, but rather a heavily
modified version of Unix, _or_ a seperate OS, take your pick.
Concerning difficulty of use, OSX vs modern Windows XP -
> Lets see, more difficult to use?...<examples clipped>...
Okay, there I agree with you, on average OS X is _still_ easier to
use. Thanks for pointing out those examples to me.
Mark-
Only thing remaining now is Jim's entire post below -
***************************************
> On 2005-08-18 13:13:16 -0400, Mark Conrad <NoSpamDammit@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> said:
>
> >
> > 1) Security -
> > Granted, Windows XP is a lot less secure than OS X, however
> > knowledgable Window's users can hide behind good firewalls so that the
> > admittedly more vulnerable OS can't be reached.
>
> I spend a lot more time keeping my PC clean than my Mac. My time at
> the Mac is spent doing something productive... OOPS time to get off
> this NG!.
>
>
> >
> > 2) Video, Multimedia, etc. -
> > If Macs are indeed superior in video as is often claimed, how do you
> > explain the fact that there are 139 PC multimedia NGs, and not _one_
> > Mac multimedia NG. If I used Macs, it would worry me that I had no NG
> > to turn to if I had Mac-specific problems with multimedia.
> Where is it written that NG's are the definition of amount of use.
> Maybe the Mac software doesn' need as much NG support. I have no idea
> on this matter.. I will stop now.
>
> >
> > 3) Unix "integration" in the Mac -
> > Is Unix integration all it is cracked up to be? Are there
> > _substantial_ benefits to be had with the Mac/Unix combination, versus
> > just running a seperate Unix/Linux partition on a PC?
>
> I like the stability and security of Unix. I use SUN Solaris
> extensively at work. Mac OS X is Unix.. its not a seperate OS. Yes
> it had better be integrated. The Mac GUI is simple the best user
> interface to Unix. Period. Yes I have used most flavors of XWindows
> (KDE, Gnome, CDE, AIX) on Linux, Solaris and AIX. Mac OS X beats them
> all.. and windows as well, in my book.
> >
> > 4) Overall cost for doing _any_ specific bunch of projects -
> > This is the biggest bone of contention, PC users claim the Mac is way
> > overpriced, Mac users claim the higher prices are justified by several
> > things, namely longer useful life of the Mac hardware, often more
> > hardware options included with the base Mac. Hidden non-obvious
> > "benefits" of Macs like ease-of-use seem to be way overblown IMO, given
> > the complex modern Mac OS X.
> My Mac G4 is three years old.. with zero problems. Runs 24x7. It is
> extremely stable and is solidly built. Unlike my current generation of
> Dell's and low end HP's.
> >
> > 5) More "productive" and "easier to use" for the Mac -
> > Supposedly "more-productive" usage for the Mac, "proved" by 5 year old
> > studies when the Mac was using the admittedly easier operating systems
> > they had in years past. The _modern_ Mac OSX is every bit as
> > difficult to use as Windows ever was, so 'ease of use' is no longer a
> > valid issue, at least in my view. Now "more productive" may indeed be
> > true for the Mac, due to the tight integration of Unix, which _can_
> > result in enhanced productivity, _provided_ the help supplied by Unix
> > is substantial, rather than trivial.
> > The downside is that learning all the "Unix tricks" could take
> > forever. Unix geeks typically have 20/30 years of "experience" behind
> > them.
>
> What UNIX tricks? The average user will never see the underlying Unix
> command layer, anymore than the average user sees Command Mode in
> Windows. Actually, the OS X user wll probably see it much less, if
> ever. In the three years I have had this machine, the only time I have
> been into UNIX command mode is when I get curious and just want to
> play. I have never had to go there for any meaningful reason..
>
> Lets see, more difficult to use?
>
> Plugged in Epson 1280 printer... printer drivers already imbedded in OS
> X. Added printer by itself. Windows.. you know the drill.
>
> Installed HP Network Print Server. Mac OS X found the thing on the
> network and added to Printers without me doing anything. Windows box
> required software install, manually enter iP address.. and a reboot!
>
> ColorSync works unlike ICC on my Win 2K machine (ok its better on Win
> XP).
>
> Its more productive:
>
> I spend zero time maintaing firewalls (built in one works fine),
> virus
> scanners, spyware detectors, etc.
>
> Safari browser is quick and secure.
>
> Oh like Photoshop on the Mac better than Windows Version.
>
> iLife is seamless way to accomplish alot for 50 bucks (included wth
> yor new machine)
>
>
> OS upgrades actually work! Windows? Clean install. Upgrades just
> inherit the crap from the last one.
>
> AND I DON"T EVER have to deal with Windows Registry. My Mac OS X
> machine despite having lots of software added, OS upgrades etc, boots
> just as fast and shutsdown just as fast as it did day 1.
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Okay guys, convince me that I am looking at this all wrong ;-)
> >
> > I wanna justify talking all my PC friends into using Macs, or at least
> > _trying_ Macs for a reasonable period of time, say 6 months or so,
> > just to see what they are missing by sticking to PCs only.
> >
> > I myself have been considering buying a dual G5 :)
> >
> > Mark-
>
>
> --
> Jim <jen....not....home..remvdots...@....yahoo
>
.
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