Re: OT: Price gouging?

Travelinman wrote:
>
> In article <43235BE3.C488B78B@xxxxxxxx>, GreyCloud <cumulus@xxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> > Travelinman wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > That's not correct.
> > > > >
> > > > > First, BioDiesel is already being used in some locations. It can't
> > > > > replace all of our energy (or even a large percentage), but every little
> > > > > bit helps.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Biodiesel is an energy loss to produce. You'd use more to
> > > > make it than to supply any needs... you'd only be using more
> > > > to get the same energy.
> > >
> > > Wrong.
> >
> > Bull***. Where do you think the energy comes from??
> > For starters, they have to use regular oil.
> > Secondly, there isn't enough biomass for the short term
> > energy useage.
> > This was proven by another poster in another usenet group.
>
> And you didn't understand a word of it, but that didn't stop you from
> making things up.

Guffaw!! You are just a proven bull*** artist that has no
concept of logistics involved with manufacturing biodiesel.

>
> Why don't you explain in detail the energy used in producing biodiesel
> fuel?

Simple, clueless. It takes more energy to produce than
you'll ever receive.
It is not efficient for one, and there isn't enough biomass
to meet the demands.
And don't forget that part of agriculture goes to feed the
people.
So far, all we've been doing is pumping oil out of the
ground.
There is minor energy losses in the overall process, so oil
that is refined is still a gain.

>
> >
> > >
> > > Feel free to document your claim, though.
> >
> > Feel free to show that there is enough biomass diesel to go
> > around for the demand.
>
> I never said that there was enough for demand.
>

Then why bring it up?

> You did, OTOH, claim that it took more fossil fuels to produce biodiesel
> than the amount of energy produced. And you STILL Haven't provided any
> evidence to back that up.

It doesn't take much... how do you get biodiesel??
You have to have a large agricultural base... a large farm
to produce a viable crop that takes oil for starters. This
is a loss. Then you have to have something to heat up this
biomass, after time allowed for fermentation or squeezing in
the case of soybeans. Another loss of energy. Then you
need to transport the biodiesel. Here is another loss. The
last step eats up some of your biodiesel. The first steps
need oil in the beginning. Later you can use biodiesel, but
by then your losses are too great for a profit. Otherwise,
it would be big business by now.

About all you can do is take whats left from the restaurants
that throw away vegetable oils.

>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > Solar and Wind are being adopted quite rapidly in some areas.
> > > >
> > > > It don't power cars and trucks tho.
> > >
> > > Sure it does. Ever hear of electric vehicles? Or generation of hydrogen
> > > for fuel cells?
> >
> > Guffaw!! Only if you can afford $500k for that hydrogen
> > powered car.
>
> We're talking about alternatives. If fuel prices stay high enough for
> any length of time, that hydrogen or electric car won't cost $500 K.
>

But no one yet knows that price. And how much will it cost
for hydrogen??
No one knows that either. So it isn't a proven source yet.

> > For practical matters it doesn't exist.
>
> Not today. That doesn't mean that it can't exist.

That I can agree on if the price is right. Otherwise, it
will fall by the wayside like other tried alternatives.

>
> > The power grid isn't big enough to charge up all those
> > electric cars.
>
> Sure it is.

No it isn't. When the summer season is on, air-conditioners
just about cause brown outs.
By putting battery chargers on the grid as well, the grid
will collapse. The current required for a battery charge of
significant size will haul the grid down.
This was covered back in the early 70s. It was estimated
that the grid conductors would need to be 100x their size to
deliver the necessary charging current for the then
populace.

>
> > The main grid would have to be at least 10 times the current
> > capacity.
>
> Another of your absurd claims.

But you can't disprove it can you.
You'd rather just blather away like some screwball that
thinks he knows something.
Guffaw.

>
> > Not practical.
>
> It takes about 5-10 amps to charge an electric car overnight. Since most
> homes use about 10 amps less at night than during the day (at least in
> the summer), the current system is quite capable of handling it. There
> would just be less drop in demand at night than there is today.
>

Uh... it takes more than 50 amps to charge an electric
vehicle. Where have you been??
Even the electric forklifts have huge conductors to plug in
to the batteries... and the main line ain't 110VAC either.

> I guess electricity is another topic you don't understand.

Guffaw! I'm an automated electronics test engineer.

Obviously, you are spitting into the wind again.

>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >The total
> > > > > cost has dropped enough that it's getting competitive - even before you
> > > > > factor in the pollution savings.
> > > > >
> > > > > And most importantly, higher prices encourage conservation - which most
> > > > > certainly is viable.
> > > >
> > > > Conservation is a losing game at this point. Eventually,
> > > > you will still run out.
> > >
> > > Baloney. Conservation is the BEST way to reduce our dependence on
> > > foreign oil. If practiced properly, it saves you money at the same time.
> > >
> >
> > Bull***. All it does is put people into crappier and more
> > unsafe cars.
> > In the long haul, the oil runs out. Then what??
>
> Driving less puts you into a crappier car?

I didn't say driving less... show me where I said that.
I said that it will force people into smaller cars that are
less safe... hence crappy cars.

>
> Putting a 300 HP engine into a Mustang instead of 350 makes it a
> crappier, unsafe car?
>

No, putting a 70Hp engine into a Mustang makes it a crappy
unsafe car.
But to get what people want the weight has to be reduced...
making it less safe for fender benders.

> Driving a 5,000 lb SUV instead of an 8,000 pound Hummer makes it a
> crappy, unsafe car?
>
> Driving a hybrid RX400 instead of a standard RX330 makes it a crappy,
> unsafe car?
>
> You really are strange.

No, you are strange... I never made those delusional claims
you just made up.

>
> >
> > > Sure, you're going to run out, but not as quickly.
> > >
> >
> > But the end is still in sight. By not conserving you'll
> > force real innovation to become oil independent.
>
> I see. But allowing the price to increase won't do the same thing?

Only the rich will be able to afford it.
The price went up due to OPEC and greedy SOBS like you.

>
> >
> > > > Better to find a real alternative or new way of powering
> > > > cars and trucks.
> > >
> > > Like solar and wind power converted to electricity or hydrogen?
> >
> > These have never been proven practical or cost effective or
> > affordable.
>
> You're wrong there, too. Solar and wind are both used quite extensively.

Show me a solar powered car or wind powered car for sale.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAA!!!
.

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