Re: Subtleties

In article <noone-3D0855.16545027072005@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Steve Carroll <noone@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> In article <db3ge1hk5isfq25gqf1c8nc6orj30v6ejd@xxxxxxx>,
> Josh McKee <jtmckee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:21:51 GMT, Mayor of R'lyeh
> > <mayor.of.rlyeh@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > >On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 19:12:18 GMT, George Graves
> > ><gmgravesnos@xxxxxxxxxxx> chose to bless us with the following wisdom:
> > >
> > >>In article <kkree1lv3k5kf46rrj9bj3bpvuocosla3e@xxxxxxx>,
> > >> Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rlyeh@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 06:18:18 -0500, Travelinman <nowhere@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>> chose to bless us with the following wisdom:
> > >>>
> > >>> >In article <9m6ee1dhkqfdd896nhv3akd6hs5g8en52b@xxxxxxx>,
> > >>> > Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rlyeh@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> >> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:10:47 -0500, Travelinman
> > >>> >> <nowhere@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > >>> >> chose to bless us with the following wisdom:
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> >In article <hefde19eor6eal844eq8bo09ve4sp679bn@xxxxxxx>,
> > >>> >> > Mayor of R'lyeh <mayor.of.rlyeh@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >>> >> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >> >> >>
> > >>> >> >> >> Unless they say them and it suits their agenda, that it.
> > >>> >> >> >> I still chuckle over all the times I was told that I should
> > >>> >> >> >> know
> > >>> >> >> >> my
> > >>> >> >> >> choices were bad ones because if they were good ones they'd
> > >>> >> >> >> cost
> > >>> >> >> >> more
> > >>> >> >> >> but price has nothing to do with it.
> > >>> >> >> >
> > >>> >> >> >Other than, of course, the fact that you're pretending that
> > >>> >> >> >people
> > >>> >> >> >said
> > >>> >> >> >things that they never really said.
> > >>> >> >>
> > >>> >> >> That was a frequent theme of posts whether you want to admit or
> > >>> >> >> not.
> > >>> >> >
> > >>> >> >Then you should be able to prove it.
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> Anyone can look up your posts if they're curious.
> > >>> >
> > >>> >Then you should be able to prove it.
> > >>>
> > >>> I don't need to prove it. I was there. I saw it with my own two
> > >>> 'widdle' eyes.
> > >>> You'll either deny it or scream 'out of context' no matter what I post
> > >>> so there's no point in working out Google's HW.
> > >>> Feel free to pretend this means that you and George didn't say what
> > >>> you plainly said if that makes you feel better.
> > >>
> > >>Mayor, if you don't know that quality products cost more than cheap
> > >>products because they use better (more expensive) raw
> > >>materials/ingredients and require more (expensive) craftsmanship to
> > >>make, then you are even dumber than I think you are. Compare, for
> > >>instance, a chest of drawers from Ikea against one from Hooker of
> > >>Martinsville. The Ikea chest is made from cheap plywood and
> > >>pressed-board stapled together by machine and if it's finished at all,
> > >>it has wood-grained vinyl cladding. The Hooker piece OTOH, is made from
> > >>solid hardwoods, with dovetailed drawers, mortise-and-tenon joints and
> > >>fine, hand-rubbed finishes. The Hooker piece is QUALITY and probably
> > >>costs 50 times what the Ikea unit costs. But you still insist that
> > >>there's no relationship between cost and quality and you've got rocks in
> > >>your head.
> > >
> > >Here's your problem, George. Before we were talking about something
> > >wholly subjective, specificly the taste of beers. You can make a beer
> > >out of the cheapest ingredients and still end up with something some
> > >people prefer. When it comes to what tastes a person likes there
> > >simply is no right or wrong no matter how much you and Joe insist
> > >otherwise.
> >
> > Already been through this with George with respect to whether a CD
> > sounds better than an LP. He didn't understand preference then. I
> > doubt he'll understand it now.
> >
> > Josh
>
> You are under the mistaken impression that there are no ways to
> objectively measure what's missing from one to the other... things that
> might tend to cause listeners to like one over another. Quite a bit of a
> difference between this and tasting beers. How do you objectively
> measure taste?

One thing MacKee continually overlooks is that in the case of recorded
music, there IS an absolute. The recording either sounds like the live
performance or it doesn't. That leaves only a little room for individual
taste. Now, I'm assuming that the goal here is to sound as much like the
original performance as IS POSSIBLE. OTOH, if somebody prefers something
other than reality, then we aren't talking about high-fidelity any more,
and on that I have no opinion, the sky's the limit and I won't disagree
with anyone who starts the post with a disclaimer that they don't like
the sound of real music played in real space and prefer CD (or whatever)
specifically because it is different from the real thing. That's another
matter entirely, and be my guest to "like" whatever you wish. But in the
absence of such a disclaimer, I assume that when the poster says that
some recording medium sounds "better" that he means it sounds closer to
the original sound of the original performance, because that's what *I*
mean when I say that something sounds *better* and I'm sorry, but I have
a hard time believing that anyone would specifically want an audio media
that purposely made the music sound artificial. I mean, what would be
the point of that?

--
George Graves
------------------
A sports car makes the journey more fun than the destination.

.

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