Re: Changing Harddrives whilst PC includes a RAID Array

Ok, I think have a decent "lay of the land" here on this problem. I'm not
quite sure what you did to actually cause the failure of the SATA array to
boot when the IDE drive is attached, but since you did manage to get the
transfer completed and drive wiped, what remains is finding some way to get
your current SATA array backed up. I assume if your IDE drive is NOT
attached, the SATA array will still boot, correct?

Two solutions, option #1 is straight-forward, but costs a few bucks. Option
#2 is free, but slightly more complex.

Option #1: Get yourself a cheap USB enclosure for your IDE HD. These can be
had for $25-35 online (see Dealsonic.com, they have loads of 'em). Because
the interface is USB, all you have to do is boot the SATA array, power up
the enclosure, and insert the USB cable. Windows will recognize it and
whalla, you have access to the storage for whatever purposes you like,
including imaging the OS on the SATA drive.

Option #2 (should be done w/ SATA and IDE drives installed): Visit
http://www.bootitng.com and make yourself either a bootable floppy or CD.
Boot the floppy/CD, and when the Welcome screen appears, hit Cancel, and
follow the prompts until you reach the partition manager. Now use the
partition manager to COPY or IMAGE the SATA partition(s) over to the IDE
drive. It should be fairly intuitive, but if not, let me know and I'll walk
you through the process.

The reason this should work is because we never are getting far enough to
boot the SATA nor the IDE drive! Instead, the BootIt NG floppy or CD is
being booted FIRST. Therefore, we can gain access to both the HDs and at
least can perform a partition COPY or partition IMAGE operation from one
drive to the other. Of course, this doesn't solve the underlying problem.
You'll still need to disconnect the IDE drive before booting the SATA drive
to avoid the blue screens. BUT, you will at least have a copy of that SATA
install on the IDE drive. Heck, you can even image copy the SATA drive to
CD\DVD media if you prefer.

Btw, I see no reason the IDE drive wouldn't be bootable as long as you made
sure you COPIED (as opposed to IMAGED) the SATA partition(s) over to the IDE
drive, AND, made sure that the partition was marked bootable. From the
partition manager, Hit "View MBR", and in the dialog, you will notice four
entries in the MBR (Master Boot Record). Each entry w/ a non-zero address
represents one of your COPIED partitions. Select the bootable partition
(usually the first MBR entry), hit "Set Active", and the partition will
indicate Active status. Now hit "Std MBR", this will initialize the boot
loader in the MBR. Finally, hit Apply to save the changes. At this point,
the IDE drive *should* be bootable using the installation copied from the
SATA drive. Of course, I'm not sure that making the IDE drive bootable is
really what you're after, I'm merely saying you could make it happen, if
that proves useful.

But again, none of this addresses the underlying problem, I'm merely
suggesting how to solve the immediate problem of backing up the SATA
installation. At least the use of an external USB enclosure provides a long
term solution by side-stepping the problem.

HTH

Jim


"D" <nomail@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:436d8c8e$0$44191$c30e37c6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Jim,
>
> This is a relatively new PC (6 months old) so your right, I probably
haven't
> experienced all the [disk/boot] issues which are particular to it.
>
> My primary concern is to get a full backup of my data. To do this, due to
> the size (80Gb), I need to get the second harddrive config'ed successfully
> without any Windows re-install.
>
> I have reformatted the IDE drive, to remove any issue with the old Windows
> install on it. (I can't remember if it was formatted with a
system-option;
> how do I tell?) It still blue screens and auto-restarts.
>
> I turned auto-restart off in my SATA-based Windows install; and know I can
> see the Blue Screen error:
>
> *** Begin***
> A problem has been detected and Windows has been shut down to prevent
damage
> to your computer.
>
> If this is the first time you've seen this Stop error screen, restart your
> computer. If this screen appears again, follow these steps:
>
> Check for viruses on your computer. Remove any newly installed hard drives
> or hard drive controllers. Check your hard drive to make sure it is
properly
> configured and terminated. Run CHKDSK /F to check for hard drive
corruption,
> and then restart your computer.
>
> Technical information:
>
> *** STOP: 0x0000007B (0xF79F7528, 0xC0000034, 0x00000000, 0x00000000)
> *** End***
>
> I then ran IBM's disk fitness against the IDE drive (with only the IDE
> attached by cables); this was successful (in both Quick Check and
long-check
> option).
>
> I tried another IBM IDE HDD and it errors with the exact same codes when
> connected with my SATA array.
>
> In all test cases, except where only the IDE HDD is attached, the SATA
array
> is the first boot device and the IDE the second.
>
> What puzzles me is that the IDE HDD used to be attached and visible and
> allow SATA-based Windows to boot successfully (The IDE HDD was added
> (physically) after the SATA-based HDD Windows was installed). This tends
> to indicate to me that it is a hardware issue; combined with the disk test
> and the other IDE also tested .... but not the particular IDE HDD.
>
> I am now trying cabling options (although I have it set as the master on a
> 80' cable by itself on the black-end of the cable, nothing on the
> middle-grey end and the blue attached to the m/b as it should be). I'll
try
> it on the IDE seperate IDE cable that the DVD burner is (and has always
> been) working on).
>
> D.
>
> "Jim" <null@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:7bhaf.16178$i%.11098@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > It's always difficult in a case like this to be positive about what
> > happened. A lot of details here regarding boot sequence, what was
> > attached
> > prior and after OS installation, mobo idiosyncrasies, etc. That said,
it
> > sounds like you may have a case where the mobo drive assignments (C:,
D:,
> > etc.) are different when certain hardware components are attached.
> >
> > For example, I have several USB external HD enclosures. If I leave them
> > running when I reboot my Abit AI7 mobo, then the "system" sees the
> > external
> > enclosure as the bootable drive, despite the fact I've told the BIOS it
> > isn't. No matter what I do, if that USB external enclosure is running,
> > the
> > system INSISTS on trying to boot it. So w/ every reboot, I have to make
> > sure the enclosures are shutdown.
> >
> > The same thing could be occurring w/ your IDE channels. Your BIOS
and/or
> > Windows may be insisting that if anything is attached to the IDE
> > channels,
> > it must be the bootable item. Of course, we know it isn't. I suspect
the
> > reason it gets to the XP logo and craps out is because it's NOT the new
> > install, but the OLD install that's trying to boot. The old install
> > doesn't
> > match the new hardware, and well..., all kinds of problems can creep up
> > now.
> > The fact you added the IDE drive AFTER XP was installed may have
> > exacerbated
> > the problem too.
> >
> > I have several suggestions, perhaps none of them ideal. You could
install
> > XP on the RAID partition again, but this time make sure the IDE drive is
> > attached and running at the time. XP will install the boot files on the
> > IDE
> > drive, of course, but the OS will be running off the RAID/SATA drives
> > (probably as D:).
> >
> > Another option, if you want to force the RAID/SATA drive to be C: is,
> > install a boot manager on the PATA/IDE drive first (e.g., BootIt NG).
> > Only
> > requires a small 8-16mb partition. Now install XP on the RAID/SATA
drive.
> > When the system boots, it will boot the PATA/IDE drive, *but* that will
> > only
> > boot the boot manager! From there, your boot manager can boot XP (as
C:).
> > This is what I've done on my system. I *always* use a small PATA drive
> > for
> > my boot manager, which in turn boot various OS's from my RAID0
(stripped)
> > array (in my case, PATA/IDE too). I then use the remaining space on the
> > PATA/IDE drive for additional partitions or storing image copies of
> > partitions on the other drives, so it doesn't go to waste.
> >
> > Bottomline is, I know this varies a bit from vendor to vendor, but there
> > can
> > be problems in controlling boot order when mixing interfaces, despite
> > whether the BIOS settings might lead you to believe otherwise. Many
> > mobo's
> > insist on a particular sequence that *may* not jive with your
intentions.
> > And that's what I suspect has happened in your case. To circumvent the
> > problem, I've simply made it a habit to maintain a small PATA/IDE drive
> > for
> > my boot manager, then have the boot manager boot the various OS's I have
> > installed. Sometimes you have to know when to NOT fight the system :)
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > "D" <nomail@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> > news:4368a201$0$44196$c30e37c6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >> I've got a Gigabyte K8NXP-SLI motherboard.
> >>
> >> It has two RAID controller chips, of which I use one to controller a
RAID
> > 1
> >> array of two Seagate ST3160827AS SATA 7200.8 160GB drives.
> >>
> >> The O/S is Win XP SP2.
> >>
> >> All was working fine, even after adding my old IDE harddrive from my
old
> > PC
> >> (continuing with the boot disk being the RAID 1 array).
> >>
> >> However, I wanted to wipe my old IDE drive to allow it to be used for
> >> backups... Before wiping it, I decided to make it the boot drive to
> >> bring
> >> my old install of XP up to allow me to run the transfer wizards to
ensure
> > I
> >> had all the settings and data I might need from the old HDD. (The old
> >> install of windows complained about hardware, given the install had
> > occurred
> >> on my old PC, as expected. I was still able to run Transfer Wizard
> >> succesfully).
> >>
> >> The problem arose when I switched in BIOS to make the RAID array the
boot
> >> disk. On boot, just before Windows XP shows it's logo, it would blue
> >> screen. The blue screen would flash by before I could read it and the
> >> system rebooted automaticaly. This occurred continuously. This was
> > stopped
> >> by uncabling the old IDE drive, which allowed Win XP to start, but then
I
> >> kept getting dirty bits on two of the partitions of the RAID drives
> >> (which
> >> after many repetative checkdisks, finally stopped).
> >>
> >> All seems to be working well again; but I've lost faith in being able
to
> >> recong drives at will. I have re-configed drives in my PC for many
years
> >> and never had this problem; although this is the first time I've done
it
> >> whilst having a RAID array.
> >>
> >>
> >> I still want to be able to attach another HDD (with the RAID array
> >> remaing
> >> the boot drive) to allow backups of my significant volume of data (too
> > much
> >> for DVD burn even - 50Gb), but am now wary of changing my config. I
now
> >> know I can change Windows System option to not reboot automatically on
> >> crashing; to allow me to see the blue screen details, but am wary of
> > cabling
> >> the IDE drive back in to further troubleshoot in case I lose all my
data.
> >>
> >> - Why would changing the boot sequence and booting from an old windows
> >> install affect the RAID parition integrity and reverting the setup
back?
> >> - Before cabling the IDE HDD back in, should I perform some action or
add
> > it
> >> with specific considerations?
> >> - Should I uncable the two SATA drives in the array, cable the IDE
drive
> > in
> >> and then run a harddisk test from a bootable CD?
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance,
> >> D.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>


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