Re: AMD Will Continue Intel Chipset Development

On Mar 12, 10:37 pm, Yousuf Khan <bbb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
David Kanter wrote:
On Mar 8, 7:57 pm, Yousuf Khan <bbb...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
David Kanter wrote:
Considering the bandwidth required by a state of the art graphics
card, I don't see that really helping. Here's some bandwidth numbers:
<snip>
It may not be necessary to run at those bandwidths. These days, "good
enough" can be done at lower resolutions, with various special effects
turned off. Perfect for the occasional gamer.
You are redirecting the argument and missing the point entirely.
Here's what you said:
"I think they're approaching the point where integrated graphics is
getting good enough for most gaming."
Now I don't know what you meant by that statement, but here's my
definition and rationale. If you disagree, please feel free to
elaborate how and why.

How is that supposed to be redirecting the argument?
I'm talking about
"good enough" graphics in both statements. However "good enough" is
achieved, doesn't matter, but it will involve designing to a hardware
checkpoint.

Check point?

What does matter is what is 'good enough'? I suggested that the
bandwidth required by even low-end graphics cards, fit only for
notebooks, exceeds that of a modern MPU. If good enough is more than
low-end embedded graphics, which it is to me, then it sounds like you
have problems with memory bandwidth.

As I said before, why don't you define for us what the phrase "good
enough" means. I proposed my definition already and I'll elaborate a
bit more:

good enough = capable of running 95% of mainstream games that will be
released over the next 2 years. By mainstream, I mean stuff like
Oblivion, Unreal, World of Warcraft, the real hit games...not crap
like Mavis Beacon teaches typing or Deer Hunter XIV.

Let's say they design games for the PC like they design it
for consoles. In consoles, the hardware doesn't change for more than 3
years usually. So the game developers have an unchanging landscape for
that many years to write their games for.

Why would you want to? Why throw away 3 years of progress in
hardware...that also means that every 5 years, you have to totally
redesign your tools from scratch. Look at how much fun everyone is
having working with the PS3...

That's different than the PC
landscape where there are constant hardware improvements every few
months, if not weeks; here they have to design games to make use of the
latest hardware features all of the time.

I don't see how they are at all different. I'm going to posit that
the cost of a game is proportional to the capabilities of the
GPU...meaning that it grows exponentially. You're much better off
with gradual growth in capabilities, than all of sudden, finding that
you are sitting on 10x more hardware than before. Evolution is good,
revolution is bad.

The argument you are making is equivalent to arguing that a closed
platform controlled by a single vendor is better than an open one that
is constantly innovating. Judging by the success of x86 relative to
anything else, it's clear that argument doesn't hold water.

So hardware that was good
enough a couple of years ago are no longer good enough. If they turned
off hardware-optimizations and went with designing for checkpoint
hardware, then things would be simpler for most people.

Checkpoint hardware? What are you talking about?

The problem with the console model is that it relies on being able to
predict what is affordable to produce in the future. The way consoles
are designed is that the first iteration will be really expensive,
because the point is that you want the console to be 'reasonable' in
the middle and end of it's lifecycle. This requires predictions over
the course of 5 years or so. It's quite easy to botch those
predictions...

Honestly, I think trying to predict the 1 year in advance that most
folks try is a lot easier.

DK


.

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