Re: The ending

Kyle Haight wrote:
In article <8f6pk49cjlig44kbe3d94vg0nr4eiejq5t@xxxxxxx>,
Nostromo <nospam@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I was specifically referring to essential goods & services industries,
rather than finance or personal transport - those don't have as much of a
primary effect in an economy as utilities, telecomms, infrastructure & other
primary industries which affect ppl's everyday lives. I was under the
impression most of those were almost completely privatised across the US
these days...?

Well, the financial and auto industries are the ones making the 'economic
failure' headlines these days.

Electrical utilities are heavily regulated in the United States. Here's
an interesting article giving some background on the history and an
analysis of the California power crisis of 2002:

http://tinyurl.com/8zfbby

Interesting historical read, though I always cringe when Edison is
credited with AC, which he bought the rights to at bargain basement from
Tesla. Edison was much more a businessman than an inventor of anything &
should be credited as a pioneer of Capitalism in the early days (at its
less than best).
I knew some of this history already (oddly enough, I have a strange
interest in things such as US history & culture, more so than most
Americans probably :-/).

Niles says near the end:
"The crises, blackouts, and price disparities associated with the
electric utility industry have led to a vigorous debate about the root
cause of the industry’s problems and how to solve them. On one side are
the advocates of regulation who blame the problems of the industry on
the “deregulation” of the past few decades, and who long for a return to
the “good old days” of 100 percent ratebase regulation. On the other
side are the advocates of the kind of “deregulation” that involves the
forced opening of the grid, who now argue that the grid must be “freed
up” even more than it was before.The crises, blackouts, and price
disparities associated with the electric utility industry have led to a
vigorous debate about the root cause of the industry’s problems and how
to solve them. On one side are the advocates of regulation who blame the
problems of the industry on the “deregulation” of the past few decades,
and who long for a return to the “good old days” of 100 percent ratebase
regulation. On the other side are the advocates of the kind of
“deregulation” that involves the forced opening of the grid, who now
argue that the grid must be “freed up” even more than it was before."

....but then goes on to draw a radically left-wing liberal conclusion,
which I don't agree with (I obviously lean to the side of regulation &
governments being accountable for most *essential* services). In fact,
when I used '(de)regulate' in my earlier post, it was perhaps inaccurate
& a bit misleading; I should have used the term 'privatised', which
would have been more to the point I was trying to make.
If we throw essential goods & services to the free market wolves, all we
the consumer/people end up getting are the most cost effective solutions
being brought to market. This does not mean they will be the best
choices, usually almost certainly not long term (depending on the
investors' desired ROI), & never for any altruistic reasons, such as, oh
let's say, social conscience & the greater good. What we do end up
with more often than not, is price fixing, anti-competitive practices,
bribery & all sorts of general racketeering. Which is why I say make it
the government's problem. If this one can't cut it, then we'll vote one
in that can! :)

Grid based power schemes are collaborative, not competitive, so I can
also see a myriad of ways for unscrupulous operators to abuse that
system (financially) as well.

Imo _competition_ (in this context of essential services) is a Darwinist
throwback that should be kept for the history books. It's almost an
article of faith now for liberals as true competition doesn't really
exist in its pure form any longer, without one party or another always
trying to subvert fair trade & ethical business practices in any way
they can for the almighty dollar. Greed is G(o)od indeed.

Telecommunications are also regulated. Competition is restricted and
government imposes strict limits on prices. The same is true of cable
television companies -- they almost invariably have local franchise
monopoly grants that make it illegal for other companies to offer competing
cable service in the same geographical area.

OTOH, privatisation of the industry is why you have such abysmal
telecomms from all accounts. You can't make a call from one coast to
another without getting billings from a half dozen carriers lol! How is
anyone supposed to be able to check the veracity of their phone bill
under such a system???
(unless of course you've sorted all that out, but in speaking to many
yanks over the past 20+ years that's the impression I got).

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "infrastructure", but most roads
in the United States are public, not private.

Yeah, but doesn't the government now outsource most of the works to
privateers? We're starting to feel the pinch of that here as well to
some extent. New expressways & bridges that will now be tolled forever,
where older ones that the government board of works built were tolled
for a period of time & are now still free to use. WTF do we pay
_massive_ road taxes on rego & petrol for if we still have to pay tolls
to get from A to B??? *boggle* It's just self-funded extortion in the
guise of 'better traffic flow' & safer roads. And most of these
'expressways' are car parks during peak hour as most studies show. You
can get quicker from A to B quite often by taking side streets & minor
arterial roads during peak times. Pfft.

The typical model in the United States in the utility, telecommunications
and infrastructure areas is a nominally private company whose operations
and pricing are heavily regulated by the government, and which is
protected from would-be competitors by government fiat. I would classify
this model as a form of corporate fascism, not as capitalism.

Take away the privateers & we're back to a socialist model I guess
(which I know is anathema to you yanks ;-p), but put some incorruptiblem
half-decent human beings behind the wheel & I can't think of a better
model. We are talking about massive public projects that cost *billions*
& *trillions* after all. They should never be thrown out to tender for
the slavering business mobs imo - nothing good ever came from the beast
with 2 heads. >8^D

The view of the contemporary United States as some sort of capitalist
dystopia is, frankly, a myth.

I don't doubt you on that account, but I guess our misunderstandings are
mostly semantic, points of clear difference aside.

You're operating under the assumption that the kind of 'government' I'm
talking about is your typical type composed of human cliques & popular
powermongers.

No, actually, I'm not. Government does not and cannot create wealth
itself, no matter who runs it. Anytime the government hands wealth
to one person or group, it had to take it from some other person or
group by some means. And that's a violation of individual rights. This
is a consequence of the nature of government as an institution, and can't
be changed by putting different people in charge.

Taxes. That's what they're for. There is no ethical or moral reason to
tax your ppl, never was, never will be. It's simply the easiest & most
direct way to appropriate funds to pay for the cost of running a
country. If you come up with a better way, let me know ;). The real
issue is how governments disburse those funds & how to make them truly
responsible & accountable for how they do it...you know, actually give a
damn! ;)

I agree 100% that governments shouldn't create wealth or strive to make
profit - that's exactly why I suggest to give them the big public
projects & all essential service/infrastructure industries. The public
servants draw a set wage to do the job, rather than contracting out for
the bottom line. All they do then is work to a budget. Without
corruption or human greed & fallibility it's the perfect system. As I
said, you just need to make a better human being & have government that
is completely, utterly & transparently accountable. My God, you guys
even privatise out significant portions of your military budget - I
mean, wtf? :-/
Another possible solution is to involve all workers in the country on
major projects - legislate to have them 'donate' their time & expertise,
rather than hitting them with company taxes. Just a thought.

I don't know how we solve the dilemma of making something other than the
beloved dollar the best driving force we 'civilised' humans have for
quality of effort for individuals workers. That's a sociological issue &
a whole other discussion.

Regular polygraphs & GPS ankle bracelets for all our politicians would
be a good start <EG>.

I'm a big fan of term limits -- one in office, one in jail. (If we
didn't catch a politician abusing his authority, that just means he's
smart and therefore dangerous. Double his sentence.)

ROFL - like the scene on the Blackhawk in Platoon I think it was, when
the guy is opening up the M60 on all the Vietnamese rice paddy workers,
ones both standing still and running: "If they run, they're VC; if they
don't run they're well-trained VC!". >8^D *duck*

Touche - I believe we have. However, it's still officially called
'Capitalism' by the Fascists, but I won't quibble over semantics. ;)

I believe in calling a spade a spade, and that includes calling fascism
fascism. (There was a great line in an early episode of South Park in
which Kyle's father was explaining some government policy, and Kyle asked
him "But isn't that fascism?" His father replied "No, because we don't
call it fascism." As though what we call something changes what it is.)

He, he, the humour aside, there IS power in names/labels, very much so.
If you say it often & loud enough, you'll get the masses to buy it.
History shows many precedents in this regard.

Someone else said you've abolished them, but yeah, smart move for the Asians
- if you can't beat them, move in with them! >8^D

Last time I checked our government appeared to have sold the entire
country to China, so it's only a matter of time before they start eviction
proceedings. I understand they want to rent New Jersey to Lithuania.

LOL. Thoough I guess it's not funny if you're living it. So, I guess the
Jap's got sick of owning yo ass & sold most of it to China? There really
are no friends or enemies when it comes to dollars & thieves, ey?

Tx for the great food for thought Kyle & making me think about something
other than the usual crap ;).

--
Nostromo
.

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