Re: Hellgate impressions

"Gerry Quinn" <gerryq@xxxxxxxxx> wrote
no.thanks@xxxxxxxxx says...
Gerry Quinn wrote:

He wouldn't have needed to do any warmongering if the US had not
been
attacked, and there's no obvious emphasis that he intended to.

Good Lord, now who is the one sounding naïve? Of course, I can't
say
much without being accused of hysterical lefty
conspiracy-theorising,
but to claim that Bush entered office with war nowhere on his
agenda is
an enormously long stretch. There can't be many people of any
political
persuasion who believe that.

Well then, let us suppose I am extraordinarily naive. Clearly,
therefore, I must be missing some obvious and damning evidence that
Bush
had war on his agenda from the moment he entered office. Would you
care
to provide this evidence, so my naivety may be alleviated?

I suspect you already know this, but I will play your game for
whatever reasons you wish. Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill claimed in
his book "The Price of Loyalty" that during his first National
Security Council meeting in January 2001 the new president told them
to "go find me a way" to invade Iraq.

Asserting that everybody believes it does not constitute evidence.
And
if the evidence you claim to have is strong enough to convince those
of
every political persuasion, I don't see why you would be afraid of
being
accused of "hysterical lefty conspiracy-theorising" if you were you
bring it forward!

Perhaps my fear is misplaced. We shall see. At the moment I'm merely
feeling like a contestant on QI.

Ah yes, now you sound like my right-wing friends. Tax cuts for the
rich
are actually "removing unfair double taxation" - this is
well-trodden
ground. Fortunately the figures of America's own economists show
how
much better off the rich have become under Bush, and how
comparatively
less well the poor and middling have done too. No need for argument
here.

"Tax cuts for the rich" and "removing a form of unfair double
taxation"
are no more than two ways of describing the same event. It was, as I

Precisely. One description presents the rich as unfairly treated and
deserving of the additional wealth created by the tax cut, the other
presents the opposite view. You naturally side with the rich and use
the sympathetic description. I take the other side and use the other.
We are once more not arguing about the facts.

It's always been more common that in most countries, including
Ireland
and the US.

Has it? Go on then, give me some cases. I'm quite interested - it
doesn't come up much here. The only one I can think of is
Birmingham
City Council in 2005, and that's not very big news. Any General
Elections?

Wikipedia has an article on electoral fraud that links to some
examples.

Thanks - that article mentions postal vote fraud in Birmingham and
Hackney, which are the examples I was previously thinking of (though I
was wrong to think they were local elections). I was looking for
something earlier than 2001 to support your claim that "it's always
been more common tha[n] in most countries" though.

[snipped the "left=communist" section]

CC


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