OT: Was: Hellgate impressions Now: free markets & new world orders

Jim Vieira wrote:

And who are you to speak for the people in those jobs? Maybe they are very
happy to work for the wage they get because these things are completely
relative, as was said above. Maybe they are making good money by their
standards. Maybe they are very happy with their situation. It is all completely
relavative. The idea that because the company owner has the abilty to make
big money by "western standards" means his workers deserve the protection
of "western standards" is such mushy headed union like thinking that drives
me crazy. People are too full of themselves and think they are the company
rather than the people who took the risks, invested the time and money,
and built the thing.

Every company is but the sum of its workers, customers & suppliers, all
bull*** aside. The initial investment & associated 'risk' that most
company owners make is nothing compared to the returns, or they wouldn't
be doing it in the first place. Business systems are predicated on
growing something out of nothing (with interest!) & getting _others_ to
do the work for you, to duplicate process & you just live off the fat
eventually. In fact, most notable companies these days in the western
world are sold off when they become successful to any degree & bought
off by investors who couldn't give a flying you-know-what about the
workers or customers, so long as their bottom line is bulging. Pure &
simple.
If you're talking about smaller business owners, then I sympathise
deeply, both on a personal & an intellectual level.

It's like you guys see any big corporation as this big, evil monolithic and
greedy group of white fat guys sitting around figuring how they can most
take advantage of people. But there are many companies that are VERY
generous to their people and nothing like the stereotypes you guys seem
to believe in.

Our beliefs are not at issue here. It's speaking from experience & being directly involved in big business for over 20 years where I'm coming from. Gross generalisation it may be, but I would stand by that description above for _most_ big business owners/investors. Except maybe that most of them are thin & they seem to be nice guys on the surface, until you realise that all's fair in love & business & they are completely apathetic towards anyone below middle-senior management level. They do take notice when someone costs them money or a deal though, which is about the only time. :)

I'm reminded of a great quote from the Sopranos, if it can be taken serious.
Tony was talking to the one legged Russian woman about happiness in the
world and so forth. Her quote applied to Americans, but I personally think
it can apply to everyone in the western world.

She said that Americans believe they have a right to happiness and expect
it, and that everyone else in the world does not expect happiness, and is
not disappointed in the long run.

Life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness! The 3 great American lies they sold themselves! ;)

We are spoiled and try to meddle in other places when we have no business
doing so. We have things very well and get all worked up about other people
who we percieve as suffering, but only because we apply our standards. Those
people may be very happy. If things were so bad they would do something
about it for themselves.

But we (the western world) has already meddled deeply in the affairs on the rest of the world, which is why we have 3rd world countries in the first place! Before we gave them just enough industry/agriculture/commerce/technology to hang themselves with, they were happily doing their nomadic, village, tribal thing & NOT over-populating, NOT exploiting natural resources, etc, etc.
BUT, we're now well past the point of no return & need to examine how we exploit the non-western world & live off the backs of it. I think the only answer really is for a new world order, where there are no countries & no cultural boundaries. However, that's an age of enlightenment we're unlikely to see in our lifetimes, except maybe on the sci-fi channel Jim ;).

And I don't believe that people who want to help those people really care as
much abou those people as much as they care about how wonderful and
caring and compasionite it makes them appear. It's compensation for their
own guilt. Look at all the <blank>aid concerts that end up not really helping
anyone with fat portions of the profits going to the people running it. Or
wearing stupid ribbons about everything but not really giving anything to
actually help those causes.

Too true. I grew up in a socialist, far less fortunate country than Aus, & even though I do very little about world hunger, peace or anything else, other than talk about it, at least I can say I'm self-educated on the realities. Always happy to be proven wrong or re-enlightened though!

Seriously, if a need or opportunity presented itself for me to do something actively about this kind of thing, then I most likely would. Paying $10/mth to some 3rd world organisation so that some poor village can get 50c of it is just cliche, not that I can't afford the extra $9.50, but it's the principal you see ;)

Free markets and less Government intervention in those markets are the way
to a happy and productive world. I'm sickened by how badly left wing ideals
and policies are just festering all over the place. It's not the right way to do
things in almost any way, shape or form. It creates dependency and huge,
unweildy bureaucracies that are accountable to no one and waste money and
do very little real good (other than making those who are part of them feel
good, and make them rich).

There must be a better way, without using the dreaded 'S' word (socialism). I just think that some of the ideas the others have presented for a workable free market economy, with caps of salaries, prices, etc, would create a far more equitable system around the world, without the love of money being the root of all motivation for everyone. It will take a diametric shift in the western world & several generations of 'new' humans to get there though. Bring of the United Federation of Planets I say! :)

Now I know I'm going to be even less popular around here than ever, if that
is even possible. I think I'm done with usenet altogether. I used to enjoy
so much the company of so many people here, but since 2000 there has
become a huge rift because so many of you are rabid left wingers. I lost
many friends around here over all the stupid bull*** about Bush and the
swift boat vets and the supposed theft of Florida. And I just can't take
seeing this touchy feely, emotional bull*** all the time when I just want
to talk about games. I usually keep this *** to myself, but I felt it was
time to say something.

I'm always up for anything online Jim! ;) Well, except for gambling.
(& I've marked the subject OT for you, as all the posts in this thread since the 3rd one should have been <G>)

Go ahead and pick me apart and nitpick me to death. I don't care, I probably
won't even read it. I'm always amazed by how ivory tower "intellectuals"
are so clueless in reality. It's an amazing irony.

I've got your email addy too Jim, so you better get your killfile warmed up! >8^D (always glad to hear an intelligent, dissenting/alternate view to all the other dissenting/alternate views around here ;).

--
Nostromo
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