Re: NWN2: wow, just wow

In article <ke0v53dr5j4t2k9qq4qim5p5ufdee2hptt@xxxxxxx>,
zaghadka@xxxxxxxxxxx says...
On 31 May 2007 03:59:17 -0700, in, Richard Carpenter

On May 30, 10:48 pm, Zaghadka <zagha...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 30 May 2007 17:32:19 -0700, in, WDS wrote:

On May 30, 6:09 pm, Zaghadka <zagha...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
You can't even properly base a computer game on it any more because it is so
inconsistent. Give me the Gold Box series any day over a bunch of codified
feats that can't be properly added to a CRPG as written.

This is demonstrably false as The Temple of Elemental Evil was a
superb implementation of the 3.0 rules (albeit shackled with a poor
module, but still fun) while the Gold Box games alebit fun (and I
played them all) were not really very good implementations of the
simpler 2.x rules.

My mistake. *Most* CRPG's these days are real time, and that's the kind of CRPG
I'm talking about. "d20" does not suit a real time environment.

If we'd all go back to turn based games, "d20" would be fine. But don't hold
your breath, ToEE flopped.

ToEE was the last CRPG I enjoyed, BTW, so good point, WDS.

I'm not exactly a student of the pen and paper D&D, so could you give
an example of how d20 breaks down in a real time environment?

We could start with the concept of the initiative roll, which is what is
supposed to determine "who goes first," rather than reflexes.

How do you handle a random initiative roll determining which character goes
first in an encounter in a real time system? Suprise rounds? Characters with
high dexterities getting bonuses to act first, when the actual player is slow
and clumsy?

Another place where it breaks down is that the combat round is supposed to be
representative of a *full minute* of huffing and puffing vying for an opening,
and the attack roll is the one time (or more) per minute your man can have a
shot at getting his attack in. Leaves a lot more time for spellcasting and
movement, and has to be compeltely left in the dust if you're desiging a "real
time" system. Baldur's Gate shrunk this down to a 6 second round, with
predictable results regarding difficulty in disrupting some VERY powerful mage
spells in BG2. The spells were designed with disruptability in mind, and so the
mages became unbalanced.

Those are a few examples. Any D&D branded game with any semblance of real time
action has done some major tweaking to the rules to make it work.

1) It's turn based. If you want real-time, you don't want DnD. Period.

2) DnD 3E uses 6 second rounds, not the 60 second rounds of prior
editions. Now unrealistically short as opposed to unrealistically long.
But mechanically, 3E is *overall* better.

3) Initiative, like everything else in d20, suffers from overly
simplistic linearity.

4) Played correctly (i.e., using Attacks of Opportunity and called
actions), DnD 3E is much closer to BG-level predictability than previous


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