Re: Grimoire Beta Test Begins
- From: Xocyll <Xocyll@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 08:14:07 -0700
khaight@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Kyle Haight) looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:
>In article <u1gee1ln7ig3qmusseqjfoi46h6arn3t2b@xxxxxxx>,
>Xocyll <Xocyll@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>>>>I'm not sure of the logic, here. What if Orcs existed and were
>>>>>intrinsically evil. Would hating them be bigotry?
>>>>
>>>>First you'd have to prove they were intrinsically evil.
>>>
>>>I'm not sure the concept of "intrinsically evil" makes any sense. Evil
>>>is a concept that only applies to entities with volition. Something
>>>"intrinsically evil" would by definition have no choice about being
>>>evil, yet if there's no choice involved I don't see how we can describe
>>>them as evil.
>>
>>Their actions would be classed as "evil" were we to do them.
>
>So would the actions of a hurricane destroying somebody's house.
Except that humans do anthropomorphise animals, it's a bit harder to do
that to a weather front.
If Flipper can be good, then obviously Jaws is evil.
[Come to think of it, wasn't the second Jaws movie supposed to be the
mate of the first shark coming to take revenge on Amity?]
>That doesn't make the hurricane evil. The whole point is that these
>hypothetical Orcs are *different from us* in a way that is relevant to
>whether they are evil or not. So noting that a human who chose to act
>like an Orc would be evil doesn't tell us anything about whether Orcs
>themselves would be evil.
>
>>Sure that's judging them by a standard that doesn't fit, but humans are
>>pretty good at doing that.
>
>The fact that people do something doesn't make it justified, or right.
>
>>>But we could not in logic hate them for doing actions over which
>>>they had no control.
>>
>>Ah but hate is an emotion and not really subject to logic.
>
>But emotions can be appropriate or inappropriate. Elsewhere in this
>thread it has been argued that it's wrong to hate people because of
>their race. There have been logical arguments deployed in support of
>the wrongness of this emotion. That's all I'm trying to do here.
Well in regards to human "races", it's A) not something you can change
and B) it's mostly a _cosmetic_ difference - they're all still human.
This is quite different than your postulated Orc race that would be
entirely different than humans.
Then you'd have to discern whether it is _possible_ for those Orcs to
act in a manner Humans would call good.
They can be "intrinsically" evil and still have the capacity for good,
but at such a low level it's unlikely they ever will use it.
The flip side of this is the intrinsically "good" having the potential
for evil, no matter how small.
Cue up Lucifer and his rebellion.
>>It's perfectly "human" for someone to "hate" a shark that killed a
>>friend, even if it makes no sense logically.
>
>But that's beside the point of whether the concept of intrinsic evil
>makes any sense.
Most humans will always judge things by their own yardstick.
"It will eat me given the chance" qualifies as "evil" to most people.
Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
.
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