Re: MSI 8800GT 512meg $208 at Dell

FYI: It's *extremely* unlikely that any bigger company buys 1000 Dell
computers with Geforce 6800 cards, and there are reasons for that:

No. Only have 41 of the Dimensions ... support 1500 users.

- Geforce cards lack essential features like AA lines that only are
available on professional cards (AMD FireGL/Nvidia Quadro)

Not any more. All the pro function is also on the game cards,
and you can enable them if you want to in the driver. You are
talking about the OpenGL debate. That is a good question right
now. No OpenGL apps would run in AutoCAD under Vista until
AutoCAD 2007 ... and I'm not sure that is an OpenGL app
anymore. Same with SolidWorks. Only CATIA is still an OpenGL
app, and indeed the SPECviewperf10 benchmark gives high
preference to the older Quadros ... at least under WinXP.
The test will run under Vista, but drops the benchmark by
2/3 .. I assume translation to Dx10 is poor.

As for hardware AA lines, we simply don't need them in
our operations. And that level of performance ain't free
either. The video card costs more than the PC.

- The Nvidia drivers switch from a performance-oriented mode to a
quality-oriented mode when detecting a Quadro card.

No. You can manually change that in both AutoCAD and
SolidWorks. Both autodetect the GF cards as lesser
cards, but when I switch them to hardware high quality
and / or high performance, they go right ahead and do it.


performance-oriented mode lacks several features used by professional 3D
applications and often causes display error

Yep. Frame rate in the dirt. But go look at the autodetect
data, and you have the option to manually reset all that
and save a ton of money in the process. I also have the
Dell Precision 580 with Quadro 3500 in it. All my tests have
shown that the Quadro only performs better in older OpenGL
apps. and where are we going there ????? I sure don't know.
Ask Bill.

- Geforce cards are not certified by any ISV (independent software
vendor, the manufacturer of your CAD application), and by using a
non-certified card you won't get any software support at all

You get what you pay for $$$$ . I have all the support I need
.... for a fee. And I have yet to call AutoCAD tech support and
get a working solution to anything. If you want to spend a
really angry afternoon, try SolidWorks tech support. My favorite
call to them was, "Would you please turn your license server
back on." Ladies comment, "What license server?" Right.



- Dell only sold Geforce 6800 cards in their Dimension computers.
Dimension is the home user series from Dell. If you buy a Dimension you
get home user support.

No. If you are a certain type of business, you pay for that
level of support. Doesn't matter what you buy. Now, the
Inspirons are OK, but I have a huge garbage can full of those
stupid plastic cpu covers by the fan. I have 26 Optiplexs.
Had to upgrade video cards, ram, LCD monitors. The Dimensions
kicked their butts in all benchmarks. Only thing I really like
about the Optiplexs is they are so quiet you can't tell if they
are turned on. That is a real plus in an office.

applications, the Dimension series is not. And Optiplex and Precisions
get you a much better business-oriented support.

Indeed. And I have that support too. Guy at Dell just can't believe
we won't buy the Precisions. They start at $2700, and then you
buy a monitor and ram ... and then spec the Quadro. Bend over.

- johns reported "test results" are directional contradictionary to
every other reputable source and usually also to simple logic

There are no reputable sources. I'm a member of one of those
"reputable" benchmark groups, and I can't get an email reply
from any of them anymore. Try it yourself and see. Go beat on
The SPECviewperf door and see if you find anybody at home.
Try all their links to the other bench-dudes. Great big silence
out there in that arena. This same OpenGL debate is raging
in all the CAD forums. CATIA rep from Boeing dropped by
the other day, and ran one of his benchmarks on a new Intel
Duo I built. It uses the GF 8600 GTS card. He turned around
to the group, expecting his app to take some time coming
up, and big grins from the Engineers. He turned back around
and it was already done and displayed on the screen. They
said his head did not move one bit, but his *** went about
4 inches in the air. So you tell me ??

- johns claimes he supports over 1000 CAD systems,

I support about 1500 users on my subnet. That's not all CAD :-)

johns

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