Re: How many companies are buying new AS400's

kellyj00@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

there's something called a role in most databases. In oracle you
just Grant or Revoke priviledges for each user or group.
so... it's pretty simple.
create the user jsmith as role accountant
grant role payroll jsmith
or you can just select which tables (err, you call them files) that
they should see or modify. Just like you do in iSeries navigator.

I'm unclear about the use of the term "databases" here. Does that mean 'every object type on the entire system is secured by the same mechanisms and/or commands' or does it mean the 'database objects are secured with this mechanism; non-database objects might use something else'?

Also, does it mean 'a user is granted READ (or whatever) rights to the table regardless of what interface is used to access the table' or 'the user is granted READ rights to the table but can perform UPDATE operations through separate USE rights to a program that has its own encapsulated UPDATE rights and that can only perform the specific updates that are encapsulated within the program object and the user does not have authority to create or change program objects' or 'the user is granted READ (or UPDATE or whatever) rights as long as access is only through a local connection; otherwise transactions are rejected (or reduced to READ or whatever)'?

what does it take to start journaling a sql server database and then
capture, manage and save the journaled changes?

right click the table, start journaling...just like iSeries navigator.
in oracle, I've always had a DBA to work with, but you just save the
journals with any kind of archiving software...or you can use the
supplied RMAN....not sure on SQL server how it works, sure it's
similar.

Or write a program which reads the journal and processes all the changes to a set of
fields in a specific file? On the AS400 is a matter of using the
CRTJRN, CRTJRNRCV, STRJRNPF and RCVJRNE commands.

we call these SAVEPOINTS and ROLLBACKS. there's just something about
typing in ROLLBACK to Savepoint x that gives me a warm fuzzy.

Yes, but how easy is it simply to write a program to read and process the journaled entries themselves? (Ease of programmed access was the question.) SAVEPOINTs and ROLLBACKs are easy in any database that supports them, but what about analysis of the actual individual entries? I.e., how do you run a total on the orders recorded as journal entries from between 8 AM and 11 AM from May 1st? How do you show the shipment amounts for user JIMBOB, including the names of the programs that were used and the process identifier in which the program ran from the last week in May to see where an inventory discrepancy appeared?

Note that I'm asking out of ignorance. I know how to use i5/OS, but I really know nothing about this level of access in other databases and operating systems. And I'm asking from experience about things I've been asked to do under i5/OS (well, OS/400 at those times.) I'm truly curious how such things are done elsewhere.

To save an application you run a single SAVLIB command to save both
the database library and the program library. Then DSPTAP to display
everything that is on the tape. And DSPJOBLOG to verify that
everything was saved. Is it as easy to do this in Windows or Linux?

No, not natively that I've seen in Windows and Linux. I know that the
windows backup utility is really lacking....that's why folks invest in
third party software that allows you to recover a certain point in
time or any email that was ever sent/recieved. Some software, like
archive attender, is amazing for this. Also, if you change any file
at any time, you just tell the software what point in time to retrieve
the file from... and it's there within a minute or so. Also, you
can back up to a NAS (network attached storage) or to optical.... not
just to Tape...so there's options there that some folks are
exploring. Especially with this whole sarbenes oxley thing going on,
it's not good to lose any data at any point in time.

These make me feel a little more comfortable under i5/OS. Having a single vendor responsible for _all_ fundamental operations is where warm/fuzzy gets good.

When a program bombs on the as400 you have a chance to look at the
job, look at the call stack, start up the debugger and find the cause
of the problem in real time. Can you do this in Windows and Linux?
How?

well, that all depends.... granted windows is .dll hell (so it can
render things like windows, scroll bars... you know, non-green screen
things for it's user interface)

(Note that 'green-screen' has had native graphical scroll-bars, pull-down menus and other mouse-sensitive features for... hmmm... well, at least the past ten years. If anybody actually wanted to, user resizable windows with dynamic positioning and other possibilities are provided, but for some reason no one actually codes for them.)

there's programs like spy++ that let
you see exactly what .dll's and .cab's your program is referencing.
You may not be able to figure out exactly why it errored out when it
did, but you can certainly debug it. Usually good programming
involves something called exception handling which keeps fatal errors
at bay as long as possible, then you can always call the original
programmer or get online and search for the program and maybe, just
maybe, among the oodles of people running Linux/Windows, you'll find
your answer without even having to go through much of a debugging
process.

If it's your code though, well...that's a different story. In the
PC world, you get real-time debugging for MS Visual Studio...which
means you can step through your programs and blah blah blah...
anyhow, .NET is the most common programming language on the planet
right now, I don't need to give it a sales pitch... but I'm guessing
it might have something to do with being able to connect to databases
other than IBM DB2 UDB for iSeries, but it can use the iSeries as a
database...and give you more than just a telnet session for your UI.

I can think of many UIs that can be used (including out of Visual Studio) to access iSeries objects. Likewise, access from i5/OS to any other database is possible through the same kind of mechanism as in Windows -- i.e., use drivers supplied by the DB vendor. Of course, most vendors prefer charging an arm & leg to use their drivers on iSeries -- why make it easier? But a type 4 JDBC driver almost always fits anyway.

as much as IBM is to be mistrusted, the system as created 30 yrs ago
still stands up very well.
I don't mistrust the iSeries, I think it was a good idea before the
client/server architecture broke ground. Unfortunately, times change
and technology has advanced quite a bit to where folks expect to have
a PC in front of them rather than just a terminal. I haven't logged
on to a BBS since the Internet came about, unfortunately I have to use
telnet to access our legacy servers.

Although I do have one terminal connected to my AS/400, I only use it when necessary, e.g., when I have my network shut down. Otherwise, I use one of my PCs.

Of course, for a number of my uses, a terminal command-line window (generally telnet based) is the fastest, easiest route. I do it by choice due to my background.

I also make certain that terminal access is fully functional for all products I work on; customers regularly have 'GUI interface Yes/No' as a check-item on their product evaluation sheets; but less than 10% use GUI to do the work of the product. When a clean green-screen is available as an option and it isn't crippled by lack of features, it's regularly chosen as the working interface. Once the underlying application structure separates presentation from the rest of the app, it's a no-brainer to supply both. The GUI gets the check-mark during evaluation; the green-screen gets used.

This post isn't intended to be confrontational, but defensive.

It shouldn't be either. I'd prefer 'educational' in both directions. I've used "PC"s from almost the beginning. I still have a working Ohio Scientific C4P running OS-65D. But OS/400 was the operating system that captured my attention. No, actually it was CPF first; but OS/400 convinced me. I've been so buried in it that most everything else gets little more than superficial attention.

My
original post was to claim that the PC realm is close enough to the
iSeries in enough ways that I can't see the benefit to the extra
cost....except if you've got some legacy RPG code sitting around.

And I can't grasp why that's so. I won't be surprised to learn that it's out of my lack of depth elsewhere, but I can't know if others don't speak up.

I get pretty heavily into performance and work management on some pretty intense systems. We have one significant customer who handles a staggering number of remote transactions in the minutes immediately after the stock market opens for example. Tens of thousands of transactions flood in through the network in a very short time. I need to know how to examine each transaction and authorize or reject it according to the rules database that's set up by the customer before the transaction is passed to the customer database and I have to do it without hindering the performance. The customer _cannot_ risk processing slowdowns.

I know how OS/400 work management lets me tune it so the customer is happy during those three or four minutes and is just as happy during the remaining 23:56 of the day. But I don't know how to do the same on any other system.

I know almost nothing about 'work management' under Windows or Unix. I can't set a portion of Windows to use one time-slice limit while a different work area has a longer time-slice. I haven't a clue how to control processor access through activity levels in different Windows subsystems. I think I could manage something like 'high', 'medium' and 'low' priorities for different processes; but that's about as far as I could go.

But under i5/OS, I use the same command syntax and help structure and everything else for work management or performance as I do when I grant an authority to a data queue. (Does Windows have data queues? If so, can I access them from i5/OS as I can access an i5/OS data queue using the open-source functions available for Windows?)

Still, nobody...not even Rodney from IBM has touted the benefit of the
iSeries. I'm really losing faith that the iSeries is how we are
going to maintain our shop. Another thing, after some research and
talking to our sales reps, the Dell PC servers are cheaper than the
IBM z-series....so we're probably going to abandon IBM all together on
this one. Unless IBM tells me that their intel chip is somehow better
than Dell's intel chip.

I'd be surprised if Dells weren't cheaper than zSeries. But I'm just about as long away from mainframes as I am into "PC"s. I know what mainframes could do 30 years ago; I can't even guess capabilities today.

--
Tom Liotta
http://zap.to/tl400
.