Re: HPGCC Questions ladies and gentlemen!!!

In article <1142382780.841076.39970@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Claudio Lapilli <pleasedontspam@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello,

Frank Pittel wrote:
Paul Schlyter <pausch@xxxxxxx> wrote:
In article <q7-dne35zqjBg4nZRVn-pA@xxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Frank Pittel <fwp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Claudio Lapilli <pleasedontspam@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi,

: Frank Pittel wrote:
:<...>
:>
:> Even better then learning C with "any compiler" learn C with gcc. :-)
:>

: Yes, but we all know gcc is not the friendliest compiler for a person
: who is just starting with C. Of course getting familiar with the gnu
: tools is a plus if you are going to use hpgcc, but If I had to choose a
: free compiler to learn C today I would choose MS Visual C++ Express
: Edition. ANSI C has been deprecated but it's still there and the IDE
: makes it a lot easier on a rookie.

I don't know that gcc isn't a friendly compiler.

You can usually consider the phrase "not friendly" as a synonym for
"not GUI". Of course this expression is mostly used by people who
are addicted to GUI's.

I figured that was the meaning when Claudio recommended a MS compiler.

By "not-friendly" I mean you need to learn the tools first, then the C
language. When I recommended another compiler was simply because that
way people can focus on learning the C language without having to worry
about the tools.

I think you got it wrong when you assume that MS Visual C++ need not
be learnt.... :-) If someone encounters it for the very first time, and
has little or no experience with IDE's in general and the MSVC++ IDE in
particular, it can be quite confusing.

Using gcc from the beginning can be discouraging for first-timers
because it takes longer to get your first program running.

Nah -- it'll take a minute or so, assuming you know how to use some
text editor. It just requires three simple steps:

1. Create the program with your favourite text editor, call it, say, hello.c
2. gcc hello.c
3. ./a.out

That's it! What's the great obstacle here? Learning to use some text
editor of your choice? OK, that'll take five minutes, not just one... :-)

I don't intend to start a flame war IDE vs. CLI, I use both to get the
best of both worlds (the Windows distro of hpgcc has a very nice IDE,
by the way).
Also, an IDE gives some extra tools like syntax hilighting +
auto-completion

A decent text editor gives you that too. My personal favourite is
Epsilon, which is available for several different platforms.

+ quick access to help + compiler error postprocesing +
easy access to compiler options + one-hit compile and link + project
management +...

Project management is nothing exclusive to IDE's -- there are many
project management tools to choose among.

on top of that, often a debugger.

I would never use an IDE if it lacked a debugger !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a matter of fact, when porting C code to the Visual C++ compiler, I
frequently build it using a separate editor, and the MSVC command-line
tools including nmake. I then use the IDE only as a debugger.

The main disadvantage of an IDE is that it's almost always single platform.
That matters little to the beginner of course, but it can be a great
disadvantage to those pros who are trying to get their code running on
several different platforms.

All that can make
things a lot simpler for beginners (and also for pros, of course).

IDE's being simpler for beginners really was the case a number of
years ago. But nowadays the IDE's try to do almost everything. This
make them so overburdened with features that it's easy to get lost if
you're not used to that particular IDE - and that is quite relevant to
beginners.

Claudio

--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: OPINION: What are the best Linux C++ IDEs out there?
    ... or the benefits of an IDE? ... The compiler then can analyze all declarations in a project, ... How else would it be possible to jump in the editor from the use ... This feature exists within xemacs, ...
    (comp.os.linux.development.apps)
  • Re: HPGCC Questions ladies and gentlemen!!!
    ... free compiler to learn C today I would choose MS Visual C++ Express ... ANSI C has been deprecated but it's still there and the IDE ... Create the program with your favourite text editor, call it, say, hello.c ... Project management is nothing exclusive to IDE's -- there are many ...
    (comp.sys.hp48)
  • Re: OPINION: What are the best Linux C++ IDEs out there?
    ... >compiler as you described in the previous paragraph. ... You just describe the difference between an IDE and a collection of loosely ... OTOH just that competition is an evolutionary force, which I often miss in free ... An IDE, or any useful code editor, should assist by reducing the ...
    (comp.os.linux.development.apps)
  • Re: MFC under VS2010
    ... the IDE that started with VS2005 and continued into VS2008 have not been fixed, ... So if you liked the old piece of crap, ... new editor, because it is the same piece of crap, reimplemented. ... OTOH, the compiler supports the latest C++, including the ability to use "lambda ...
    (microsoft.public.vc.mfc)
  • Re: From the LuxAsm list.
    ... >> I don't think that it would be possible to add an IDE to an assembler ... > have all incorporated the editor and assembler in the same program. ... be taken advantage of, from the LuxAsm IDE, in doing so:)... ... There is, of course, a _LOGICAL_ dependency between the editor and the ...
    (alt.lang.asm)