Re: hp recovery dvd

ben_myers_spam_me_not wrote:
> One more response, and then I think we should agree to disagree.
> Disagree strongly.

No, we can agree ... that you've failed to make your case. Read on.

> We've both gone on record stating that backing up information from a
> system is important. Certainly one approach is to image the hard
> drive or something similar, as you advocate. I doubt that even HP
> would emphasize this for its target customers, because doing so would
> increase the final cost of a system (added hardware and software),
> something which is unacceptable in the current cut-throat
> price-sensitive environment.

Well, for most systems it would be only software and 'consumables',
i.e. DVD media, but I 'agree' in the sense that most people will not do
this, not be able to do it, etc..

> The consequence is that the owner of the computer, your target
> customer, would need to have all the materials necessary to rebuild
> the system in the event of a catastrophic disk crash. If HP does not
> provide complete restore media in the box with the system, the
> customer needs a foolproof way to create them or to order them cheaply
> and easily. In the hands of HP's target and somewhat naive customer,
> creating restore media is not foolproof, and many people do not do so.
> HP makes its restore media available for order for a limited period of
> time, surely not for as long as the 4-5 years that most of these
> systems last before there is a serious failure.

Yes, that's Microsoft's monopoly for you. Feel free to bash *them*. If
you bash HP, and *other* vendors which do the *exact same thing*, then
bash them for not having the spine to stand up to Microsoft.

> This gets us to the problem of how to rebuild a system when the hard
> drive fails completely. First step is to burn a CD or DVD with a
> current copy of one's own personal data, doing so somewhat regularly.
> (I have trained small business owners and individual computer owners
> to do so with valuable data.) Next step is to have a copy of Windows
> install media, whether a genuine hologrammed WIndows XP or a copy
> marked restore. After that one needs the drivers, because all the new
> systems produced in 2003 or later utilize chipsets which were not even
> designed when the Windows XP CD was produced.

And here is where you (again) fail to make your case.

(Note: I think the main problem with your 'responses' is that they are
not really responses. As most top-posters, you *quote* other people's
postings, but you do not *respond* to the issues raised in them. That
makes communication nearly impossible. This thread is a clear
demonstration of that problem. So next time, please join the 1980's and
use interleaved/ interspersed posting like all other responsible
posters.)

The "... burn a CD or DVD with a current copy of one's own personal
data ..." sentence indicates that you talk about a procedure *before*
the hard drive fails. The somewhat smart customer will also backup the
OS (i.e. full backup) or/and recovery partition or/and make a recovery
disk or/and copy the drivers. The customer who doesn't do any of that,
but still backs up his personal data, is in for a nasty surprise anyway,
because he will have lost all configuration files, all extra software,
etc., etc.. Getting the drivers will the the least of his problems.

The user who buys another copy of XP and then finds someone to get the
drivers for him, but magically can do the rest of the re-install/
restore, is a very minute minority. As I said, I think it's totally
inappropriate if a consumer system vendor wastes their customer's money
on catering for this minority.

> (Microsoft does not slipstream the new drivers into its SP2 CDs
> either.) And the drivers need to be readily accessable, which is what
> I have been "whining" about for a long time.
>
> I don't care whether I, as service provider, or the target customer
> has to get a system back to a working state.

As explained above, the target customer's case is practically
non-existing.

> The requirement still exists for easy-to-obtain software drivers,
> either on the web site or ordered on CD from the manufacturer. If the
> target customer does not have all the restore/media in his/her hands,
> he/she needs to depend on a service provider to do the job.

And it's not a vendors job to cater to the 'needs' of a service
provider which provides 'service' on systems which he (apparently)
doesn't sell.

So, as I said before, but you also ignored/dodged, *if* you think this
is an issue for you, then *you* should get it sorted with HP. Publicly
bashing the vendor of your prospective customers only reflects badly on
*your* professionalism.

> In short, some percentage of target customers need the drivers,
> directly for themselves or indirectly through the help of a service
> provider. The incremental cost of web site development to make them
> all available on-line is not huge. The return in customer
> satisfaction and repeat sales cannot be quantified. HP may choose to
> ignore this small percentage of target customers by continuing along
> the same path. This is HP's choice to make.

Yes, the percentage is small, very small. Is it wise to confuse the
other 99++% by 'offering' them software which they *don't* need and
which can possibly harm their systems? The answer is a very big NO.

> HP is not so successful as to have undergone massive company
> restructuring in the past year, starting with the departure of Carly.
> Competition continues to push HP to change and improve. Let's hope
> that HP's improvements are positive. The computer industry is only
> strengthened by strong competition in computer hardware. Despite my
> bashing, I would much prefer to see a continually strong HP in the
> marketplace.
>
> I'll continue to whine now and then, but I prefer to think of it as
> free speech, because this is an unmoderated newsgroup. Fortunately...
> Ben Myers

And, now and then, I'll complain about your whining/bashing, for
exactly the same reasons.

> On 27 Dec 2005 15:35:14 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> >ben_myers_spam_me_not wrote:
> >> In response, let me say that if finding drivers and detailed technical
> >> information on the HP web site is not easy for me (40+ years of solid
> >> computer industry experience going back to punched cards), it is
> >> probably even more difficult for the typical consumer.
> >>
> >> As an example of this, let me point out the fairly obscure manner in
> >> which another poster did finally manage to find the drivers for the
> >> model owned by the OP. Rather than being able to find the drivers
> >> directly by searching for the model, the other poster needed to
> >> associate the model with the motherboard in the system, then
> >> eventually found the drivers as part of a list of drivers for a model
> >> of Compaq Presario. Sorry, but this procedure is indefensibly and
> >> unnecessarily complicated.
> >
> > The point you keep ignoring (dodging?) is that the normal *target*
> >customers do *not* need *original* drivers (because those are on the
> >system and on a recovery partition, etc.).
> >
> > The ones who say they need them, are you, i.e. a (apparently)
> >non-partner third party service provider, and 'hobbyists', i.e. people
> >who got a *second hand* system without software.
> >
> > You think the software is 'missing'. I think it would be bad, i.e. a
> >waste of my/the_customer's money, if HP would cater to the 'needs' of
> >people who are *not* their target customers.
> >
> >> I will retract only a part of what I stated earlier. Compaq Presario
> >> drivers ARE easier to find, apparently part of the Compaq legacy, of
> >> which the sensible customer-oriented parts have not yet been absorbed
> >> by HP.
> >>
> >> I will reiterate that I can find Dell, IBM/Lenovo, and Gateway drivers
> >> and technical information (diagrams, photos, how-to texts, COMPLETE
> >> service manuals) very quickly. This is not simply a matter of my
> >> familiarity with these web sites. The information is THERE on the web
> >> site. For a great many HP models, especially the consumer Pavilion
> >> models, the information is incomplete or just plain absent.
> >
> > I don't care that other vendors are different and, in *your* opinion,
> >'better'. What I do care about is repeated, inappropriate and
> >misdirected vendor-bashing. (Also, because of the totally different
> >channel, comparing Dell/Gateway to HP is apples versus oranges.)
> >
> >> The OP just stated that he called HP and was told that the restore CD
> >> or DVD cannot be obtained for his model of computer, only a few months
> >> old. If this is true, I will assert (right! not a fact, but an
> >> opinion) that this is poor customer service, once again compared to
> >> HP's name-brand competition.
> >
> > As another poster also said, as far as we know the OP did *not* call
> >HP, but only visit HP's website. The OP's system was equipped to make a
> >recovery DVD and he *made* one. His *problem* is that he does not know
> >how to verify it. Has anybody tried to help him with *that*? No! But a
> >lot of talk about non-relevant stuff like 'missing' drivers on websites.
> >
> >> The quantity and quality of information on the name-brand company web
> >> site is important to somebody, either the consumer or someone else.
> >> If the consumer does not maintain the system him/herself, then the
> >> information is important to the service provider.
> >
> > No, *original* drivers (and the other information you refer to) are
> >*not* "important" to the *target* "consumers"/customers. Even if the
> >system crashes and the customer has no backup, the *target* customer is
> >not helped by original drivers on a website (because, as I said before,
> >he can't get them with a down system and even if he could, he wouldn't
> >know what to do with them).
> >
> >> If HP had somebody reading this newsgroup regularly over the last five
> >> or six years, they might already have figured out that a stronger
> >> customer orientation is needed. And Carly may still have a job. Yes!
> >> Another opinion by... Ben Myers
> >
> > Well, in their *target* market HP/'Compaq' is doing fine with their
> >'consumer' systems, so they must be doing *something* right!
.

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