Re: IE help neede....

Warbles wrote:

...If something goes wrong, I can
fix it...

Simon, I've seen you post on Linux in various groups around the net
before - sure you can fix Linux problems because you are without a
doubt an expert with the system. But the same absolutely holds true
for people who are expert in using Windows as well. I do not consider
myself a Windows expert but in the eight or so years I've used the
various incarnations of Windows I've never met a problem I couldn't
overcome without too much difficulty.

... with windows I get some weird error messages before having to
reinstall.

See, now you are doing the very same thing you accuse others of doing
- you are simply engaging in hyperbole here. Look, I currently have

Nope, speaking from experience.

I told you, I grew up running DOS and windows.

three desktops running Windows - an early Compaq Pentium purchased in
1997 with Win95 pre-installed; a Dell P-III purchased in 2000 with
Win98SE pre-installed; and my current machine which my son built for
me and on which he installed WinXP/SP2. I also have two laptops - an
older HP which I installed XP/SP2 on myself and a recently purchased
Dell laptop which came with the new WindowsXP Media Edition OS on it.

All of the machines - including the Win95 installation from 1997 - are
running the original installations. I have never once had to reinstall
an OS - they run smoothly and "as advertised". That's my actual
experience over eight years with five computers and four different
iterations of Windows. My personal experience with the Windows OS does
not bear out what you and the other Linux proponents are saying about
the continuing need to reinstall the OS. This is one of Clockmeister's
original points in this thread as well.

You must be one of the lucky ones. Everyone I know bitches and complains
about windows. Slow apps, crashing apps, lockups, freezes...

A guy at work bought an Inspiron 9400 the same time I did and runs windows
on it. He bitches because it takes him 15 seconds to delete a directory
tree, and he cant figure out why.


The reason you hear things about Windows reliability is because
Windows computers are marketed to everyone - everyday people who don't
know a JPG from a CD. They buy a $500 special at Walmart with it's
256k RAM, 16k graphics card, and 1 GHz CPU, then take it home and
can't understand why they can't run Doom 3 on it like the guy next
door, or why they can't play City Of Heroes properly on their
Earthlink dial-up. Then some other clueless individual who is trying
to burn DVDs using a Win95 computer from 1996 joins in the discussion
with "Yeah, that Windows really sucks."

And youve never suffered any slowdown on windows? My brother runs windows 98
still and reinstalls about once every 6 months because his PC slows to a
crawl.

DLL hell anyone? Every app has its own set of libs under windows. Why not
just statically link everything and be done with it?


I have always found that in general, a Linux devotee will always come
back to the old "poor reliability of Windows" mantra. What most of us
knowledgeable Windows users are saying is that it just ain't so. If
you know what you are doing, Windows is reliable, safe and easy-to-use
- just exactly what you are saying about Linux.

Mate, Ive been using Windows since the 3.0 days, both personally and
professionally (I work in IT). The amount of work Ive lost on windows to
various crashes, lockups, and BSODs, is unbelievable. Several of my apps at
work crash at least once a day, for no apparent reason.

The amount of work Ive lost on Linux? Zero. Nada. Ive *never* had the kernel
crash on me, but I recall X crashed on me *once* (it actually locked up the
graphics card, so I had to ssh into the box to reboot it).

You obviously dont push your OS too hard. The reason a 'linux devotee' (is
that what I am?) will come back to windows security and stability is
because both are provably piss poor.

Windows is safe? :) Ill think of that when next I have to reinstall my
daughter's PC because someone borrowed it, surfed to a dodgy site, and
instantly the PC becomes irreversibly infected with viruses and trojans :)


And please do not tell me that's it's all roses and champagne for you
Linux users either. My brother is an IT department chief for a state
government outfit in Texas and a Linux enthusiast. He knows his
computer stuff. He recently took on a project to build a
state-of-the-art box using Linux as the OS to prove that it could be
done. He quickly found out that the technology that the WinXP system
could handle with ease simply could not be accommodated using Linux.
Eventually, probably yes. But by then Windows will have moved on to
the next thing as well, and Linux users will once again be stuck
waiting for someone working in a basement somewhere in his or her
spare time to develop a decent driver.


Again, poor hardware choice. Its not my fault your brother cant do some
simple research. Back up your claim, what hardware was it specifically?

I run kubuntu on a brand new Dell Inspiron 9400. Ive run linux on everything
from 386s to an Alphaserver 4/266. We run it on most of our servers at
work, and stability and latency has noticibly improved running on the same
hardware.

As a server, linux simply rules windows, there is no competition. Microsoft
already know theyve lost the server battle. Unless you have a specific
requirement to integrate into a windows network with exchange or something,
there's no reason to run windows.

I actually run Office on my linux box (in case people send me documents in
those formats) and it actually boots and runs faster than on windows.

Well, I run Office on my XP desktop and laptop and it boots and runs
perfectly fine. So what? I can also go into Best Buy, Circuit City or
Electronic Boutique or even Walmart or K-Mart or the drug store donw
the block and pick any one of a hundred new software packages or
hardware items, take it home, and begin using it as soon as I can get
the cellophane off the box.

Can you do that?

No, but I can run 'Aptitude' and have the new software on my box 30 seconds
later :D

However, what happens when you get the cellophane off the box? Well, first
you better read those licenses pretty carefully. Most of them these days
have clauses that allow the software manufacturer to install trojans and
spyware on your PC. Then, you better read the minimum hardware
requirements. Those PCs you bought in 97 and 2000 arent going to crack it
anymore - perhaps its time to upgrade them? Youll need some extra RAM, 1G
should do it to get that product running. Slowly. Then, oh no, it installed
its own PDF reader on your pc by default. You already have Acrobat
installed, why would you want another one? Unfortunately it wont let you
uninstall it. Now youre running out of HD space, you check and find your
machine is full of DLLs, most of which do a similar task to another DLL on
the system. Why cant these bastards get together and standardise these
things? Then halfway through creating a widget with your new product, you
get the familiar 'sorry, product X has to be closed and restarted. Shall I
ask Microsoft to ignore your complaints?'. After using the product for a
while, you hear that it has a security issue. 110 days later Microsoft
release a patch for the issue, in which time youve had to reinstall your PC
4 times. You apply the patch, and it breaks 3 other things.

Repeat ad-nauseum.


Look, obviously youre not going to start using linux any time soon, and like
I said, that's no skin off my nose, but dont tell me windows is all fine
because I work with it and know otherwise. I guess if you surf the web and
play solitaire it might hold together for you, but windows crumbles under
any serious use and always has. Just ask our Java APs at the moment who are
braying for linux desktops just so they can get some work done.


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