Copying Select [was keyboard shortcuts in Select 4i4]

In article <gemini.k0l7ru001vi3g04ao.news@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, David Pitt
<news@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
The point I had in mind was that it [does] not seem quite right somehow to
pinch an idea from a commercial product and put it in a freebie.

Agreed. It feels wrong. Pragmatism and co-operation are essential.

Let's see where we are:

ROL are updating RO as Select and are selling copies with regular updates. At
the moment that is available for older machines and virtual RO though work is
continuing to port it back to the A9. That covers the vast majority of
current RO users.

ROL say that they have attempted to port RO to the Iyonix but need help from
Castle, meanwhile Castle have been reported as saying that wouldn't be in
their interest. The stalemate has resulted in people like Paul Vigay making
threatening comments against ROL.

Meanwhile some Iyonix users are angry because good development is happening
and they can't buy into it. The reaction varies between condemning the
development as 'no good', 'irrelevant', 'it was already mature and we don't
need any more development' and trying to kick ROL. The trouble is that ROL
may well be able to do nothing about it. If ROL are right in what they say
(and there is *no* evidence otherwise) then there is nothing they can do
about it directly. Note that there is almost certainly no way ROL could make
a profit out of porting Select to the Iyonix; the numbers are too low (Iyonix
users are loud but there are far more *current* RPC and Virtual users). Note
also that, according to David Ruck, Castle claim that Select on the Iyonix is
not in their business interest.

Iyonix users want Select. Non-Iyonix users want Iyonix users to have Select
(because if we all have RO Select, application programmers would be able to
make best use of what Select developments offer - applications would improve
for all of us). ROL say they want to provide Select for Iyonix users. Castle
say they don't want Select on Iyonix pcs. Remember that ROL have a
responsibility to develop RISC OS and every owner of a RISC OS machine
(excepting Iyonix owners) has paid ROL a sum of money for the right to run
RISC OS on a desktop machine.

So ROL has developed RO 6.10 (sold as Select 4i4) with money from everyone
(but not Iyonix owners) plus subscriptions and sales (presumably not that
from Iyonix owners either) and the question is whether that development
should be copied for the free use of Iyonix owners.

You can see why I'm scathing of Paul Vigay when he not only calls for that -
but for that to be done as 'punishment' to ROL!

ROL and ROOL have agreed to ensure that development doesn't mean software
clashes. That isn't a green light to make free copies of aspects of Select -
although it is inevitable that such things will happen. What is important is
that development continues and hysterical calls to punish developers don't
help.

Options? Iyonix users could ask Castle or Iyonix to co-operate with ROL -
though they now have little or no leverage as there is minimal support or
development that most users can now expect; David Ruck and others
successfully kept the pressure off Castle at the time this could have borne
fruit. Short-term the best option is through co-operation - something may
well come of the sensible relationship between ROL and ROOL and at least a
part port of Select may arrive for Iyonix owners. Medium-term the problem
will disappear as the Iyonix gets older - but we will need a replacement
machine in addition to the A9 (to keep a range of machines). For that we will
be relying on ROL development as no hardware developer is going to risk
investment depending on the non-existent Castle licence. In-fighting (of the
type advocated by Paul Vigay) makes no sense for either the short or
long-term. It's utter nonsense for any serious RISC OS developer.

Although I was pessimistic about the future for RISC OS 3/4 years ago I am
far more optimistic now. Whilst it would be foolish to *expect* coherent
development for new hardware from the open/shared sources of RO5 at ROOL they
may well contribute to what Iyonix users need in the short-term. Medium term
must be to ensure that ROL have what it takes to support the next hardware
from whichever 3rd party is willing to invest.

Long-term? Long term we all (*all*) need hardware that runs off practically
no power and RISC OS experience - from all areas - of lean software will play
its part.

--
John
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Copying Select [was keyboard shortcuts in Select 4i4]
    ... A9 users verse Iyonix users. ... Castle, meanwhile Castle have been reported as saying that wouldn't be in ... need any more development' and trying to kick ROL. ... RISC OS to more companies that service our part of the market segment. ...
    (comp.sys.acorn.misc)
  • Re: Copying Select [was keyboard shortcuts in Select 4i4]
    ... from Castle, meanwhile Castle have been reported as saying that wouldn't ... Vigay making threatening comments against ROL. ... that make what David Ruck reported recently seem likely as the reason Castle ... they would choose) to be able to produce Select for the Iyonix. ...
    (comp.sys.acorn.misc)
  • Re: Select (was:Re: Latest version of !Draw)
    ... Because ROL refuse to produce such a web site, ... name they now call it by) - Castle or ROL - but ROL are the ones with ... Iyonix, to show their commitment. ... years and years producing a product for it. ...
    (comp.sys.acorn.misc)
  • Re: Select (was:Re: Latest version of !Draw)
    ... Iyonix owners bought an iyonix and ... it works well why would Castle want Select functionality. ... commission ROL they had no alternative. ... ROL's reason for being is to keep RISC OS going isn't it? ...
    (comp.sys.acorn.misc)
  • Re: Copying Select [was keyboard shortcuts in Select 4i4]
    ... ROL are updating RO as Select and are selling copies with regular updates. ... from Castle, meanwhile Castle have been reported as saying that wouldn't ... the numbers are too low (Iyonix users are loud but there are far ... RISC OS machine (excepting Iyonix owners) has paid ROL a sum of money for ...
    (comp.sys.acorn.misc)