Re: Operating systems at war?

In article <4f980f4e22john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
John Cartmell <john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In article <4f9806c405spam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
VinceH <spam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[...]

Why? - and How? With the RISC OS GUI how/when would it help?

Being able to whiz around the contents of a window or dialogue
and control things from the keyboard is a great help because it's
a time saver if the alternative is to keep moving back between
keyboard and mouse.

[...]

I can see why it's handy with Windows - but with RISC OS so much
more can be done with the mouse.

s/more can be done/more has to be done/

It's "handy" with Windows because Windows makes it possible. It's
efficient for rapid inputting. It would be handy with RISC OS if RISC
OS made it possible - and it would be efficient for rapid inputting.

The use of the keyboard isn't making up for a defficiency, it's
providing the user with an improved user interface. Get over your
erroneous line of thought.

You seem to want a Windows kludge (because it's needed in Windows)
when it isn't needed for proficient use in RISC OS.

Okay, *don't* get over that erroneous line of thought - instead,
please explain to me exactly what makes it a kludge (and why it's
needed) and exactly why it isn't needed "for proficient use" in RISC
OS.

Hint: "with RISC OS so more can be done with the mouse" isn't a
reason, it's an excuse - and a self fulfilling one at that (see
above).

We now have keyboard manipulation of the filer but I've yet to be
convinced that much more is needed - but do try to convince me that
it is needed *in RISC OS*.

The short answer is that applications in RISC OS, just like Windows,
presents the user with windows and dialogues that contain many types
of control/icon/gadget that said user may want to
manipulate/change/alter. Forcing the user to switch back and forth
between keyboard and mouse is anything *but* a method for proficient
use.

[...]

The best example I can think of where this is useful is in a
database[1], where each record consists of both textual items and
other options, and where lots of new records need to be added. If
all of the data (including non-textual) can be entered from the
keyboard, as well as saving the record and opening a new one, it
can be input a lot faster than switching between mouse and
keyboard where necessary.

And, of course, *any* menu can be reached and invoked from the
keyboard, not just those with a keyboard shortcut assigned.

[slightly excessive quoting leading up to John's response below, but
I've left it for the benefit of my response to him]

[1] And keep in mind that the term 'database' covers more things
than just a simple flat file database of (eg) subscribers. Most
notably (from my point of view) it also covers accounting
systems, into which in large or busy companies there is often
*lots* of information to be input - and having to resort to the
mouse would be a great time waster.

But that's how databases work in RISC OS. Which one(s) don't that
you know of?

First of all, please notice and absorb the contents of the footnote.

Second of all, in answer to your question:

I don't remember the databases I've had and used in the past enabling
full keyboard control for inputting into all types of field -
especially not ticks and options. Which ones have I had? Mostly, too
long ago and I can't remember, other than Datapower (and the one in
Fireworkz Pro, which IIRC was based on Datapower). Having said that,
since it's so long ago, I do reserve the right to be misremembering.

More recently (as in a couple of weeks ago) I downloaded Powerbase to
give that a try, and fed my users database into it (which was
previously done in Pipedream). AFAICS, there is no way to tick a tick
box (for example) from the keyboard. (You can rapidly enter a whole
raft of records if they're all text fields, since pressing return on
the last field opens a new record - but that's just one small part of
what I said).

--
VinceH
.

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