Re: QA Testing Qualification

I find it very strange that you qualify a Cisco exam as a testing
qualification. I do not see them as relatted in any way, and you do not
give any arguments why it should be seen as such.

I omitted to mention that Cisco's model is /the kind/ of certification
exam that I would consider appropriate for testing. My apologies for
not being more clear. But now that you mention it, the kind of problem
that the Cisco exam posits is, in many ways, a testing problem. So
while my omission made my meaning unclear, I'd suggest that the Cisco
exam IS related to testing; that is, if an applicant for a testing job
had one of the common testing certifications AND a Cisco cert, I'd be
more impressed by the latter.

Studiyng the works of Cramer, Bach and Dorothy Graham is always a good
idea, but right now the ISTQB exams are in my view the only
internationally recognised qualifications that matter.

Uh, that's Kaner, not Cramer. And I disagree that the ISTQB
qualifications matter. The best testers that I've met don't have ISTQB
certification. People who are NOT the best testers that I know do have
the ISTQB certification. So, in my experience and my view, the ISTQB
qualifications don't matter.

It is a colaboration of Amerika, most European countries and several
Asian countries. There is a standard sylabus that is used by all local
ISTQB boards.

I know. I have a copy of it. But what does it matter that there's a
standard syllabus? Doesn't the quality of the syllabus matter?

I've been approached to be an ISTQB trainer, certifier, and board
member twice. I recall being told both times that being involved at
that level would be lucrative for me. Some of my colleagues report the
same thing. This led me to believe that, for some, the ISTQB is a
marketing tool for their training and consultancy, which represents an
ethical problem for me. I believe that some people involved in the
ISTQB that are entirely well-intentioned, and that all of the people
involved are well-intentioned to some degree. But the conflict between
charging for courses and charging for exams is troubling to me.

The exams are monitored by a central body.
And most of all, people with no skills will fail the exams. If a bad
tester works really hard, they might pass the foundation level (but
they will have to study so hard that they will have improved a lot as
tester, so they might not have become good testers, but willl be able
to test with acceptable proficiency).

Acceptable? Not even good? Oh.

When it comes to the practitioner and expert level (in development) if
you passed it, you really know your profession. Hacks will fail.

Does the exam involve someone watching you test and evaluating your
process, or does it subject you to a written exam? The answer is the
latter. When we test drivers (in North America, at least), we don't
certify people as qualified behind the wheel until they've passed a
driving exam. Under current certification programs (as I'm aware of
them), testers are not obliged to demonstrate skills; they're obliged
only recite them on paper. Testers aren't even held to the standard of
a 16-year-old driver and a ten-minute driving test.

And what do you mean with

All of the other certifications that I've seen and heard of don't
assess your ability to /test/. Instead, they test your ability to
provide a right answer according to someone's (highly suspect) body of
knowledge. For this reason, until we have much better skills-based
certifications, I'd advocate developing skills and not worrying about
certification.

Testers need testing skills, not developing skills.

When I say "I'd advocate developing skills", I mean "testers should
develop skills" rather than "testers should develop development
skills". But while we're at it, development skills /are/ important
skills for testers to learn. Do you disagree?

And exactly why is the body of knowledge so suspect? Who are these persons
that are telling blabbering nonsense about testing, and want your money to be
examined in it?

The body of knowledge /in my opinion/ takes a narrow, traditional view
of testing that was out of date 20 years ago. It doesn't mention
critical thinking skills; it doesn't mention general systems thinking;
it doesn't mention modeling skills; it doesn't talk about adapting
testing to the mission at hand, and specific ways that you can do that.
The syllabus is preparation for the certification exam, and the
certification exam is evidence that you've absorbed the syllabus to
some level. One could do this without ever testing any software,
without ever investigating a bug, without ever providing a problem
report.

Automated_tester

What's your real name?

---Michael B.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: QA Testing Qualification
    ... I omitted to mention that Cisco's model is /the kind/ of certification ... that the Cisco exam posits is, in many ways, a testing problem. ... The best testers that I've met don't have ISTQB ... people with no skills will fail the exams. ...
    (comp.software.testing)
  • Re: QA Testing Qualification
    ... I an see why you regard the Cisco exam as a test of a persons problem ... I have not read him yet because I currently studying the ISTQB ... say in hiring testers. ... and develop my skills as a test. ...
    (comp.software.testing)
  • Re: Just a little venting
    ... >And with each exam, ... >and establishes the skill sets required to achieve certification. ... covers the "skills being measured" in detail - yes, ... technology doesn't stand still. ...
    (microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcsd)
  • Re: 70-310 exam
    ... Certification process is very much influenced by the purpose of the ... exam - In fact even MS Press books themselves are not sufficient. ... testing real world skills - Most of those skilss could be put in 1 or 2 books ...
    (microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcad)
  • Re: 70-310 exam
    ... I took the exam for the fifth time and failed it again with a ... I rigorously went over the two books I had purchased for the test in prior ... Certification process is very much influenced by the purpose of the ... testing real world skills - Most of those skilss could be put in 1 or 2 books ...
    (microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcad)