Re: Metrics for automation ...

Hello ,

Shrinik wrote:
It seems that you are blinded by so called "Factory" or Routine school
of Testing. You dont seem to understand our world ( context driven
people). Google for "Bret Pettichord's Four schools of software Testing

No way.

I would like to address some specific comments of yours.

Well, Did you read my first post carefully? My question was more to do
with what and how collect as metrics in my context and I have mentioned
the challenges and issues that surround - collection of MINDLESS
METRICS. People like Michael ( one of the respected software testing

I think first you should have asked your seniors. When a team member
has a problem, he should talk to his manager. If the team member does
not talk to his manager, he knows that his manager does not know
anything! In case you dont have a boss, talk to the management clearly
and get the correct and complete requirements for the metrics
collection, that should help you to better understand the situation.
Remember your management is your customer and they have asked you with
certain objective.

>If you mislead the numbers, you are not a professional and you are
trying to cheat people! This applies to your team members also!
Remember they are trying to fool you (manager!).

I can only laugh at your innocence or lack of common sense. When I
mentioned that I can mislead with numbers- I was trying to drive home
the point that mere numbers can mislead and I can do that to satisfy
the needs of management that is interested only in seeing numbers. Do I
actually do it or have intentions to it? If so, I would not have taken
pain to explore the ways of doing things that are right. I am a

A professional should always be true to his profession, that my
policy and I have seen only those kind of people clib up the management
ladder. According to me a person (educated person) who is not true to
his work is not a professional.

professional or not - This is not a forum to discuss - write a private
mail to me I shall forward my credentials and my resume - you can
decide yourself.

Definitely! My email id is vivekanandan.mariappan@xxxxxxxxx!

I do not manage a development team - I manage a Test automation team -
yes your are right to some extent as Automation is nothing less than
development. You seem to have used right term without knowing that it
is the right term :)

ie) you are the support team for your main testing team! Am I right?

and have diffrent objectives in SDLC. Who said that team worked with a
set of requirements - what if you dont have requirements explicit
and/or documents?

Without requirements document, how a test plan/testing requirements
can be identified?

This is again a pure factory thinking on your part - to assume that
1. there will be some requirements that you assume to be 100% correct

If you dont have a requirements document, then you are doing
something without a goal!! Its like playing FIFA worldcup without a
goal post!! Then you and I can say India will win the World cup!!

2. and write some test cases that map to these requirements

Without a requiremetns document, do you expect the customer to come
and tell the QC team to develop .... testcases. What is the input for
the QC team?

3. and execute those test cases and declare that I have 100% test
coverage and release the product once all the tests passs.

Ofcourse, this is testing!!

When such a product goes to market - it bombs with some bugs. When the
bugs come to you - so called QA Team - you do some sets of meetings,
so lots of pulling legs, Blame game (developent team blames you, you
blame Business domain people or Requirements and so on) etc and finally
conclude that requirements were not clear and complete - hence test
team could not write test cases to them and hence could not test them
hence QA team could not catch those bugs. That results in another set
of meetings and another process Check point or review will be
introduced and life goes on.

In this kind of situation, the project managers should be blamed.
The manager did not capability of his team, so they the delivered
product was ....!! The manager was not bothered to ask each of the team
members if they understood the requirements clearly! The main reason
for a project failure is unclear requirements! This should be caught by
the project manager and his team before starting the design or
implementation! Any product development will have a programme manager,
who manages co-ordination between the various teams (development,
QA/QC, documentation, release management, etc) and ensures that they
wknow what they have to do. If any team is having a problem, it is his
responsibility to solve the problem.

The fundamental mistake here is to forget the fact that process can not
( can never) compensate for lack of skill and mediocrity of testing
team. Investing in training testers in essential Testing skills ( read
James Bach for this) will help...

I think you have the answer in your message! You cannot use an
unskilled people to accomplish a task, asking them to follow the
correct process! If that is posible a 10/12 standard students should be
able to do our job!!

Here again - you are jumping the guns. The example I have given is
"other project" that I know of - not the one I am managing. You are

Ohoooo!

using the terms like effort completed, remainnig effort - as if I am
building a house or riding a bike to go from one place to other. Please
understand I am building software - where terms like planned, actual ,
remaining effort etc are highly simplified and abstract concepts. It
requires skill and experience to manage software project than simply
following company QMS or SEPG manuals or ISO, CMM and six sigma
manuals.

Now that the software field is matured, we call it Software
Engineering. Software is not more an Art!!

Best Regards,
Vivekanandan M

.

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