Re: How does this robot know it has arms?

On Sep 2, 1:32 pm, c...@xxxxxxxx (Curt Welch) wrote:
It's sure a shame that we don't have better tools to monitor what a brain
is doing so we could get a better understanding of what type of thoughts
develop in babies and when. There are just all sorts of interesting
questions we have no way to answer because of our lack of ability to
perform high resolution brain monitoring.

Actually, I would encourage you to research some child development
texts. Turns out there are real fears associated with height built
into human babies, even from visual clues with no experience
(therefore unlearned). One experiment I remember is the precipice
detection. They take an set a baby of crawling age on a surface of
glass, continuous everywhere, so it can't fall. Then underneath there
is a tile pattern, one up against the glass and another well below the
glass. The baby will not cross the threshold from the close pattern to
the distant pattern, even though there is no possibility of falling.

I like clever setups like that, which give us insight into the mind.

I would love to be able to create others of similar scientific test,
which speak to the unconscious, even in adults. Very fascinating.

Ah ha. Found something important to this discussion. Google on Moro
reflex.

From:http://www.babyslumber.com/articles/baby/what-is-the-moro-reflex/

"One of the more interesting observations in a newborn is the way they
seem to be scared of falling for no apparent reason. It seems there is
no justification for a baby to have such a fear, especially
considering that they've likely not experienced falling in the first
place. But Mother Nature equips human beings with an amazing set of
reflexes designed to protect us from all manner of possibilities.

"This odd fear of falling is known as the Moro reflex (also known as
the 'startle reflex'). It is present in newborns but usually
disappears within a few months. At birth, the pediatrician will test
the baby for this reflex by laying her down on her back and removing
contact with her. She is expected to throw her arms and legs out and
extend her head in fear."

See also:
http://www.umm.edu/ency/article/003292.htm
Which supports the idea of them having many reflexes built-in.

The Rooting Reflex is another interesting one, and it's goals toward
survival are essential. Again, I suggest this one is also
unconsciously expressed many different ways in adult life. Freud's
"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" is easy decoded if one suggests
instead, sometimes a cigar is just an expression of rooting. (Original
idea of mine, btw.)

More see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_reflexes

I suspect the type of thoughts the baby is having is not even as complex as
visualizing himself walking. I suspect it's working at a much simpler level
at that point of his development.

I agree.

I suspect at that point he's developed
recognition circuits in his brain which is able to recognize legs, and
recognize simple walking actions because he's seen it in other humans.

I really disagree.

I don't think the baby consideres itself a human being yet. There is
it, and there is everything else in the world. This division starts as
soon as it discovers its toes. It figures out what it can wiggle and
what it cannot. What it can wiggle or feel is it. What it cannot, is
the world.

In other words, I think this sort of behavior in babies is probably best
explained as simply mimicking behavior driving by secondary reinforcers.

I would doubt that. I think walking is a much more personal act. I'd
suggest the mental process might be how do I keep this higher
viewpoint (visually rewarding) and "up", and not wind up smacking my
***/face/etc. on the floor?

I don't think the baby would yet have any sort of concept that walking will
allow him to get something he wants.

Disagree as above. The visual effect is already something they want.
Effort has delivered, and they wish to keep their "up" status.

Above in the thread, the automatic bias against down has been
identified. I would suggest the there is an equivalent desire for up
built into us. You see this displayed when babies reach up both hands
and open and close their fists, the universal language for "Pick me
up".

So an elevated status is also something I think is a genetic
prediliction. I think this was manifest later as man's reaching toward
climbing mountains, taking the skies in planes, and to the stars in
spaceships.

So I don't think he's having any sort
of thoughts that could be described as wanting to learn to walk so he can
move around the room faster.

Agreed. Speed is not the motivation. Neither is mimickery.

--
Randy M. Dumse
www.newmicros.com
Caution: Objects in mirror are more confused than they appear

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