Re: Is Adobe violating their own standards

Steve/Aus <adlab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Lee Blevins" <leeb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1huiqqw.o3erqe12mgwx4N%leeb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Steve/Aus <adlab@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Postscript is the universal printer description language or is
supposed
to be, or indeed it was. A postscript file created in practically any
application on any platform could be read and used in practically any app
on
any platform.

that ain't necessarily so.

It was amongst the first to succesfully cross-platform and yet this
standard which should, if anything, gotten better over the years seems to
be
moving further away from being universal.

In the beginning there was that cntrl-d thing that made it not mac/pc
cross platform so I'd have to question that. Whatever program read the
file had to know that the first character was cntl-d or not to know what
the file was. Mac's didn't precede all text files (postcript files) with
control-d.

My experience with this comes from the fact I use CorelDraw as my
preferred vector drawing program. Without going into precise details why,
it
has a lot to do with being able to have multiple page documents and
running
the files to a reel-to-reel digital label printer (not a thermal printer,
a
PS3 colour laser printer).

Corecl Draw, worst PostScript generating program I ever saw.

Back to postscript, since the release of the CS suite of programs by
Adobe, I can not import EPS files created in CS programs into CorelDraw
version 12 even though it does support level three postscript. Out the
window goes the standard. EPS files created in other apps and pre-CS are
not
a problem. Therefore I must conclude that the code in EPS files created
by
CS programs is different.

Corel Draw, PC base, PC, Windows, created a multi-page EPS file. I was
shocked when the Red Book clearly stated that EPS had to be a single
page. But, Windows marches to the beat of a different drummer. Am I
shocked that Corel output is problematic? NO.


The work-around for this is to send the files to my bureau who opens
them in a CS program, usually Illustrator or InDesign back saves them and
then creates a new EPS file which opens into CorelDraw without a problem.
I could easily draw conclusions as what I think might be happening
here
but I will refrain as there *could* well be a more logical answer. In any
case, 'why fix it if it ain't broke' certainly comes to mind.
Steve W (in Aus)

My suggestion, get a better program than Corel.

In response to your informative answer (for which I am grateful) Postscript
ain't being universal is somewhat obvious, In fact that was purpose of this
post.
For your second point, the control-D thingy, I was completely oblivious to
this, good point.
To your third point, Corel being the worst Postsrcipt generator, I am not
actually trying to generate postscript, rather bring postscript into Corel.
Notwithstanding that when I do generate postscript I use an Adobe virtual
postscript printer driver to do the job, not Corel.
In regards to your fourth point, I was not aware that Windows etc. has the
abilities to generate multi-page EPS files, neither have I ever made a
multipage EPS file or see the need to. And again I must stress that I did
not suggest in any way that Corel's output is problematic. I have not found
it so, neither has my bureau or a number of other digital print shops. Like
most things in this game, if you know what you're doing you should be able
to avoid problems. My bureau has stated on many occasions that my files are
the easiest to work with, just RIP and go. As expected, by far the majority
of files he gets are Mac-CS, then Corel's output really can't be that bad.
It's people's output that fails miserably in just about all cases.
On your last point, what is better? Different maybe, lose some features,
gain others, but the word 'better' is very subjective. I did state that I
must have multi-page capabilities and it must be a vector drawing program.
Not a lot to choose from is there really.
Steve W (in Aus)

I'm sorry for misinterpreting your workflow. But I must also point out
that it's unlikely that anybody else is having a problem importing an
EPS made from any of the current creative suite programs, so I'll guess
the problem is unique to Corel.

Since you took the effort to have a detailed response to my post I'll do
the same, it's great learning.

The first point in your response that postscript was "cross platform" is
obvious. It's a "device independent" page descriptoin language. It was
never aimed at a particular platform of any kind.

Second point, your experience with Corel, Great. My experience has been
to output from it. I found two things, (1) It's a kludgy non-intuitive
app for graphics professionals. It follows it's own conventions and is
not similar to the programs that MOST professionals use. So for me,
making edits to it is painful, I pray I don't have to but it seems that
most of the Corel users I've encountered were not the best of graphics
technicians. My personal feeling there is that if they were better, they
wouldn't use Corel but I realize that a prejudicial attitude not based
on any research. Since I have to output it, the biggest problem I've
seen is it is one of the most unreliable programs in translating the
native draw mechanism of the windowing platform (windows or mac) to
Postscript. You all to often get some odd item not end up in the right
place or right color or some unexected translation. Keep in mind, it's
the program that authors the Postscript in graphics apps, not the
driver. The programmers of Corel IMHO just don't do it that well.

Your third point, the response and I guess re-iteration of the original
problem is that you can't import CS2 EPS files into Corel, My first
response is the EPS file format is being killed by Adobe and they're
using it as a tool to make life Miserable for any program that can't
import a PDF or their native file format. EPS is dying. Adobe is killing
it in the apps, don't expect relief soon. It's only going to get worse.
If the software you are using is relying on Adobe to export a clean EPS
that you can import, you're screwed. They are stacking the deck against
that workflow to bring users to their monopoly a the creative suite.
Indesign imports the native format of both Photoshop and Illustrator and
Adobe owns that market for illustration and imaging so don't expext them
to fix it.

As far as your bureau saving you by back saving, that's great. I hope
you pay them a lot of money, they deserve it. Since the creative suite
only costs about 1200 bucks (USD) you could end up spending that quickly
so why not just buy it?

After you buy it, you would probably realize that you should use it
instead of Corel.

What features of your work would not work in any aspect of the Creative
suite? In short I"m saying, what is it about Corel that makes you endure
this pain?


.

Relevant Pages

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  • Re: Is Adobe violating their own standards
    ... application on any platform could be read and used in practically any app on ... Back to postscript, since the release of the CS suite of programs by ... Adobe, I can not import EPS files created in CS programs into CorelDraw ...
    (comp.publish.prepress)
  • Re: Is Adobe violating their own standards
    ... application on any platform could be read and used in practically any app on ... worst PostScript generating program I ever saw. ... I can not import EPS files created in CS programs into CorelDraw ...
    (comp.publish.prepress)
  • Re: Is Adobe violating their own standards
    ... application on any platform could be read and used in practically any app ... worst PostScript generating program I ever saw. ... I can not import EPS files created in CS programs into CorelDraw ... Corel Draw, PC base, PC, Windows, created a multi-page EPS file. ...
    (comp.publish.prepress)
  • Is Adobe violating their own standards
    ... Postscript is the universal printer description language or is supposed ... application on any platform could be read and used in practically any app on ... I can not import EPS files created in CS programs into CorelDraw ...
    (comp.publish.prepress)