Re: What do designers know about Pantone colors

On 2006-05-20 17:36:49 -0300, "_+arroo" <zarrookez@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> said:



In my original post, the idea was to give a broad overview that there
are
other factors that are probably not very well understood by those in an
office, - for those that wanted to read it. (There was never any
obligation)
To try and point out that all things being equal are, in fact not so
equal
and that nothing is set in concrete.

Your original post is not factual. The generalizations you make may be
true for where you work now, but they are not universal truths.

To state them as that is misleading.

That's my general reaction to your comments.

I can agree with you on some of your ideas but in general it sounds as
if you're coming at this from the pressman point of view.

While I respect every pressman I've ever worked with (it's a few trust
me on this) I can't say that I ever saw them as the best engineers of
this process of offset lithographic printing.

Good at running a press, yes. That's what they were paid to do and for
the most part the ones I had the pleasure to work with were good at
running a press.

But not the best deciders of what color to make something or whether
something should overprint or not.

In many (ok,most) cases where I saw a pressman change a color rotation
to put black down last it was at the expense of the quality of the final
outcome and to gain an easier approach to the actual running of the
press.

It murders the 4C process images and there's a better way. Separate the
offending element form the process black plate, create a bump, double
hit or whatever you have to do but not murder the images.

And the statement about black going down after metalics I just can't
agree with from the perspective of making a quality job.

One has to evaluate the design and determine the best approach. Does it
contain images? Is it just type? Does it have flat screen tints and how
large are they? You can't just say put it down last and that's the final
word.

For my money the best metalic with black type I've seen is putting the
black down first, spread, and hit the metalic heavy on top. Even better,
double hit that metalic. All out with a choke and a sharp image on the
appropritate plates.

So I thiink the shock value of your post is that the statements have
situations in which they might be the right action, but they're not
sweeping truths about this process of offset lithographic printing.

What overprints and what unit a color should be on or should a second
hit of the color be used is a design consideration that can't really be
made until the design is evaluated.

Hi Lee,

I'd say you're right on in your approach to metallics. Double hits are good,
but not always possible. If not, the it takes A LOT of metallic ink to get
it to look good. Best laid down last, with the black knocked out and the
metallic choked in.
Actually, for my money, the best way is to make 2 runs. Let the metallic
dry, Then run the black.

Keith.

I'm not a pressman, just a graphic designer interested in how it works.
I have seen many photos of commercial litho presses with spot first then black then the colors..
but I'm curious, when running one of the plates in overprint, like black text mostly, that means the black has to run last right?

1 )Isn't that often? that black text overprints images? wouldn't it be better to have the black go on last instead of first? what's the issue of black going first and how many times to you have to swop the black as 2nd and last to run on the paper?

2) how are the color rollers swicthed rotation? If you want black last, do the machines move or is it a case of cleaning up the rollers and tanks and switching colors?

any web site or info would be appreciated. I love this stuff.

--
Listen to Papa Joe

.

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