Re: Looking for SAS/SATA RAID Controller That Supports JBOD

"Will" <westes-usc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:j6adnQcMvMM5DTbbnZ2dnUVZ_t-gnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxx
"Folkert Rienstra" <see_reply-to@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:46aaecbf$1$97270$892e7fe2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Will" <westes-usc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:YfidnTmNerHr2jTbnZ2dnUVZ_t-gnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxx
"Scott Lurndal" <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:wibqi.46063$YL5.17139@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

JBOD has historically referred to a collection of otherwise unrelated
spindles.

Right, which is why one speaks of a JBOD cabinet, not a JBOD drive.

I said a JBOD controller, not a JBOD drive.

And I was responding to Lurndal, so? Having problems with reading?

You could also refer to such a controller as a non-RAID controller.

Better not:
http://64.233.183.104/search?hl=en&q=jbod&btnG=Google+Search
All refer to such a controller as a *RAID* controller supporting JBOD ar-
rays, -or- an external controller spanning drives in a cabinet (JBOD array).



but that's not the traditional definition of JBOD.

No kidding. I didn't say it was, now did I.
I said that there are 2 definitions, depending on what you speak of:
Cabinets (non RAID) or Array controllers (RAID)

Still responding to Lurndal here.


If you are trying to make some idea clear, you are not.

And you obviously are most people.

You keep responding to points people are not making

Yes I do. You keep refusing to see them.

and making your own points that do not contradict the original points made.

But they do if you are capable of recognizing that your definitions are
not everyone's definition. But obviously you can't and don't want to.

Then obviously you have no idea what this is all about and incapable of
stepping out of your own mindset.

You speak your own secret language and expect every one else to
speak that same language. Well, here's news to you, they don't.


Which of these do you not agree with:

You still have to ask, huh.


1) There are drive cabinets that have controllers

JBOD cabinets that do drive bus conversions but not doing arrays,
hence JBOD cabinet -and-
RAID cabinets that can do JBOD arrays as well as RAID arrays.
Confused, you should be: Welcome to the real world.

and there are drive cabinets that do not have controllers.

Traditional passive JBOD cabinets. Traditionally SCSI or Fiber
Channel. Can be SAS or SATA now too, though not as simple to connect.
The latter 2 will probably come with expanders/portmultipliers (ie con-
trollers) that make it a single point of connection for external use.


2) When a drive cabinet has a controller, it is usually a hardware RAID
controller.

Not necessarily.
It can be a traditional JBOD cabinet that connects to e.g. Fiber Channel but
using IDE or SATA drives that will be seen as individual Fiber Channel drives,
(no Array). It can also be an external RAID cabinet that supports JBOD ar-
rays. And it can be both, presenting the individual drives as individual volumes.


3) When a drive cabinet does not have a controller, it usually has a pass
through connection to a controller that runs on the host computer.

Not necessarily, see above. That would seriously restrict the
types of usable drives to drives using buses (daisychainable).


4) A host computer controller can be a RAID controller.

As in "non standard" controller, one with added capability.


5) A host computer controller can be a non RAID controller.

As in a "standard" controller, no extra capability.


Host-based controller cards of type 5) are normally referred to as
JBOD controllers.

In your protected little world maybe, not in the real world it doesn't.

I'm getting the distinct impression that you think of RAID control-
lers as being the standard and that standard controllers are some-
how special and need a special name for it to distinguish them from
the 'standard' Raid controllers. That is the world upside down.

If you want to create a differernt name, okay, but at least
show you can follow the topic and put a name to the thing in 5)

It's a (standard) IDE, SATA, PATA, SCSI, SAS, Fiberchannel,
USB, Firewire, 'whatever', controller. How difficult can it be.

It has nothing to do with host cabinets,

Never said anything about "host cabinets".
Why don't you try and learn to read.

and it's a complete distraction to this thread that you keep responding to
questions and points about 5) with a diatribe about points 1), 2), and 3).

Because you keep referring to single drives as being JBODs, if not di-
rectly then by implication as your denial in the first line clearly shows.


and the unfortunate reality is that it is not only useless

Oh, why?

but outright misleading when you start to work with real-world equipment.

Utter bloody nonsense.
What the hell is "real-world equipment". Is there any other? Imaginary?

With all due respect,

Bollocks.

stop wasting people's time here

Maybe stick to your own advice? All of below is wasted effort since we
already agreed on that. Try and learn to read. Get out of your protected
little shell, do a Google search on "JBOD controller" and find that in the
real world there is no such thing in the meaning that you give to it.
Go to any HighStreet computer store and ask for a JBOD controller.
See how they gaze at you in amazement. How they will ask you questions
as to exactly what you mean with JBOD controller. Have a Deja Vue.

with all of this idle speculation. Get a real controller. Do a real experiment.
Get some real world experience. Then you can come back and rename the
phenomena what you wish to name it.

For a real experiment, pick up a Compaq SmartArray 5Si which is a RAID
SCSI controller. Create a single drive RAID 0 array on the SmartArray.
Format the drive and put some OS or data on it.

Remove that drive and stick it onto an an Adaptec 31960 "JBOD controller"
which is a non-RAID SCSI controller. You will not be able to read the drive.

Compare that to creating the same drive on a different brand (LSI Logic,
for example) of non RAID SCSI controller. You can freely pass that drive
across many different makes and models of non RAID controllers.

The hardware RAID controller

Not only hardware RAID controllers, firmware RAID controllers as well.
Even Software RAID will do that.

lays down some kind of proprietary information

By some referred to as RAID META data.

that prevents it from being read cleanly on any other non RAID controller.

Some do, some don't. What matters is how it's done and/or where.
And it may even be different between OSes.
Some are more picky than others, depending on what area's they check.


Regardless of what words you want to use to describe the non-RAID
controller, it is the portability of single drives across such controllers
that I am seeking.

And it makes you look like you have no real world experience at all

if you cannot relate to what that means or give words to it.

I can.
I just like to stick a mirror in peoples face to check if they actually
know what their saying. Lot's of people just rant and make assumptions
without checking whether what they say is even true.

And it makes it look like you you don't follow the topic at all to be
arguing about JBOD cabinets.

Another of your misunderstandings that seems to be locked into your
mind and appear unable to get rid of.

.

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