Re: Is it impossible to use USB mass storage devices under Warp 4 ?

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:55:51 UTC, "django@xxxxxxxxxx"
<django@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 00:48:58 UTC, "Doug Bissett"
> <doug.bissett!SPAM@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:57:07 UTC, "django@xxxxxxxxxx"
> > <django@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 02:47:18 UTC, Colin Campbell
> > > <cmcampb@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Lars,
> > > > Is it unfair to ask why you don't move to a more modern version of OS/2?
> > > >
> > > > Advances in hardware, disk sizes, and many other areas mean that Warp 4
> > > > is increasingly difficult to run.
> > > > Colin
> > >
> > > 80 gb IDE harddrive runs without problem and is
> > > quite large for home user by any standards. Add
> > > 5 more such drives on this box with ease. OS/2
> > > v4.5 fp 16.
> > >
> > > Several years hence when new wintel MOboards
> > > appear without PCI sockets (or AGP for video)
> > > then it will be quite likely that your 'more
> > > modern' versions of OS2 will be equally disabled.
> >
> > Not true. My new MB only has 3 PCI slots, and no AGP. It has the new X
> > (whatever they are called) slots, and my new video card runs in one of
> > them, using the latest SNAPSE driver. I don't know if anthing else
> > will work in the other X slots.
> >
>
> OS2 Warp 4.5 fp 16 would do the same as the newer
> version, right? "Equally
> disabled/abled" is what I should have said.

I don't know if it would work, or not. I do know that you would have
the devil's own time trying to install it.

> > > But we will have collected spare hardware items as they
> > > become obsolescent that will continue to operate
> > > ad infinitum.
> >
> > Until you just can't get the parts to keep them working any more.
> >
>
> How much longer do you intend to live?? :))
> This Abit dual-cpu mb has
> served for about 6 years and shows no sigh of
> wearing out. I only run one cpu
> so have a certain amount of redundancy fwiw. Every
> year or so I clean out the
> dust is all I ever do to it. I should look now for
> maybe the
> fastest version of this family of boards and grab
> a couple off ebay
> (makes note to self) so as many of the acessories
> will plug right in. Be good
> for xx number of years.

I have an original IBM PC (the one that came with a full 16K,
upgradable to 64K, on the motherboard). It still works (or, it did,
last time I tried it). It is "interesting", but not very useful. I
also have an old Aptiva, 75 Mhz Aptiva, that still works, but I can't
get it to do anything useful either. Even my laptop, a 900 Mhz,
Pentium III, with 192 MiB of memory is really starting to become
limiting. I am hoping, that my new 3000+ Mhz, AMD 64 bit Athlon, with
2 GiB of memory, and 250 GiB hard drive, will keep me going for about
5 years. I would NEVER go back, and actually try to use older systems,
unless there was absolutely no choice. Older systems do have their
place though. If I can get the Aptiva to do what i want, it will be an
internet gateway machine, but it doesn't seem to have the ponies
required to run the programs.

> > > As Mozilla is upgraded will it ever cease to run
> > > on mine but still run on v4.52? Will Internet ever
> > > change sufficiently to do likewise?
> >
> > Mozilla is dead.
>
> ??? The Moz 1.7.12-os2.zip dated 9-21-2005 not new
> enough for you??

No. That one is known to have security holes.

> I'm
> still using 1.4.1 and manage to do
> ebay/banking/stocktrading/etc daily
> with no problem, even given a somewhat dated Java.

You are a brave man...

> ISTR that Moz is being continued based on the last
> proven/stable version
> of Firefox. When I tried an early Firefox it gave
> problems but either one
> that works is fine with me- its all 'netscape'
> after all.

Actually, none of it is 'netscape' any more...

> >..........................You have your choice of
> Firefox/Thunderbird/NVU, or
> > Seamonkey to replace it. Not replacing it is an option, but you do
> > leave yourself exposed to whatever the security holes are in the older
> > versions (yes, apparently, they do affect the OS/2 versions). The
> > biggest thing that the newer versions need, is memory, ever more
> > memory, to make them work at a reasonable level of performance. FWIW,
> > I have run Mozilla (it would have been about the 1.0 version) on a
> > 486, with 32 meg of memory. It worked, but it took a lot of cups of
> > coffee, and all day, to do what takes a few minutes on my new machine.
> >
>
> What does any of this have to do with Warp 4.50 vs
> 'newer versions'??
> ISTR that OS2 is still limited to ~500mb of
> memory, a limit set in the
> OS/kernel itself. If the 'newer' versions of OS2
> can actually utilize more
> memory than this, well I've just missed this good
> news.

Obviously. The 500 mb limit is ancient history, not that it has done
much good. AFAIR, it was eliminated at warp4 FP13.

> > > The difficulties you envision have to do with
> > > interfacing today's glitzy devices; any quantum
> > > leaps
> > > foreward here will leave OS2 far behind, churning
> > > away doing basic Internet stuff. Which is what it
> > > was designed for.
> >
> > ?? Os/2 was designed to be an Operating System, and that has nothing,
> > at all, to do with the internet (which is a group of applications,
> > which happen to run quite well under OS/2).
>
> Which is my point exactly. No 'new version' of
> OS/2 Warp needed to do
> this basic 1995-2005 Internet stuff. In ten more
> years what is likely to change?

I have no idea. What has changed in the last 10 years? Double that (or
more)...

> >
> > > Any real advantages of the 'new' OS/2 Warp will
> > > diminish with time. Was there ever a real reason
> > > to upgrade?
>
> >
> > ECS 1.2.1MR is so far ahead of where warp4 FP16 is, that you wouldn't
> > believe it, until you try it. I would say, that there is a bigger
> > difference between warp4 FP16, and eCS 1.2.1MR, than there is between
> > warp3 FP40, and warp4 FP16, and that is considerable.
>
> I don't know of any direct comparison of the two
> final fixpak versions (40 vs 16)
> since these were two different moving targets as
> the fp's were being released.
> It was always: "do the fp if you have a specific
> program failure that needs
> attention- otherwise wait for the next stable fp".
> Then by the time 40&16 had
> been well assimilated by each OS version everyone
> was happy and the onus
> for invidious comparisons abated.
>
> In addition to the fixpaks, IBM offered some whole
> chunks of direct system
> upgrades like tcpip which came in 16 or 32 bit
> versions. Still limited to dialup
> even today, I use the simpler 16 bit tcpip. MNTP
> predated the release of
> OS2 Warp 4.52.

Actually, the 32 bit TCP/IP stack, is likely the one thing that will
force the users of older versions of OS/2 to upgrade. There are a
number of new apps that do require the 32 bit TCP/IP, and upgrading
warp4 to use the 32 bit stack is not always as easy as it sounds,
plus, the newest fixes for that (essential for some things to work
properly), are not available without a Passport Advantage
subscription, or without eComStation.

> If you can reference any direct comparisons here
> I'd be interested.
>
> The 'new' Warp/ecs had features like LVM which,
> lets face it, was pretty
> much a solution for Windows/OS2 users who needed a
> whole new
> paradigm to handle the complicated setup of disk
> drives under both OSs
> but not for OS2-only users who had learned fdisk
> and were quite happy
> with it, thank you. Then there was the 'need' to
> run dual-cpu which never
> really amounted to much and then the issue of the
> USB buss and how to
> (gasp) survive without it.

LVM is far more than FDISK was ever designed to do, and Windows never
heard of LVM (such is their loss). LVM was developed to manage the
larger disks, on IBM's AIX, and IBM ported it to OS/2, to address the
problems that FDISK just couldn't handle. I have no experience with
dual CPU, but I wouldn't want to be without USB. That is far too
useful.

> I did finally get a Canon USB printer; it was
> either that, or going Post$cript
> or the pain (& $$$) of staying with Epson on the
> parallel port. But Canon
> had/has no drivers at all for OS2 so this would be
> the first real instance
> of OS2 obsolescence for me. IBM had NO solution
> here. A quick $156-
> to IBM or ecs for a new, total introductory
> upgrade for this Warp4 holdout
> would get me nowhere, nada, nichts.

Which printer did you get? My Canon i960 works fine, with the OMNI
(canon i950)driver. I hear that the printer wrapper driver is still in
proress, but I don't know much about that.

> Finally at a watershed of sorts I chose the
> Mac-Mini / OSX system for all
> future technology issues but planned to continue
> with OS2 indefinitely due
> to favorite programs like PMView, ProNews,
> MR2Mail, etc simply not
> being available on OSX, yes really, and I'm still
> looking. OSX will run
> Linux/Unix programs but my sense is that setting
> them up is only worth it
> if you are already a strong believer. The Mac-mini
> is a gift from Apple to
> refugees from other platforms- very cheap, OS &
> software essentially free,
> hooks right into one's existing monitor &
> peripherals, and a very powerful
> multi-media machine. So far it runs my Canon S-820
> printer beautifully. But
> that's about it. I take it on long trips where
> there is an old 13" vga and a phone
> line to use. It manages to do everything I need to
> do except Usenet is a pain
> with such dreadful software and graphics is
> clunky. PMView & ProNews
> nowhere to be found.

I have never found any reason to even bother looking beyong
eComStation. Why ould I when it will do what I want it to do, and I
can use PMView, and ProNews.

> Many an OS/2 user has transferred to Linux or even
> Irix such that daily
> OS/2 use gets marginalized to some degree. I've
> tried both Unix system
> variants, but having a prosperous company actively
> working on system
> improvements, not to mention high-tech gadgetry as
> well, is a whole new
> experience. Like that time I bought an Atari
> Falcon computer, all warm & fuzzy,
> for a while anyway.

I took a look at UBUNTU Linux, about 2 years ago. I have not even had
the desire to reinstall it, and UBUNTU is supposed to be one of the
better ones. I do intend to install it, into an SVista system, one of
these days, and have another look.

> Hey, this week Steve Jobs held a Mac-mini over his
> head at the Pixar news
> conference. When did an IBM suit ever do something
> as real & inspiring (for
> OS/2) such as that?

IBM abandoned OS/2, years ago. It is still viable, in the form of
eComStation, but some serious catch up needs to be done.

> > .............................Of course, many
> > things work with the older versions, but they do have their limits.
> > When you add in the increased power, and resources, of new systems
> > (often costing less than what you paid for your older system), it is
> > pretty hard to say that upgrading is not worth the cost, or the
> > effort.
> >
>
> Please be specific; if it ain't broken (software)
> why upgrade? Maybe its
> just the new wintel mb that is making all that
> difference for you? Or pain
> for the older OS on such a high-speed box? No real
> pain here, but no
> high-speed
> connections/wireless/satellite-feeds/dvd2s either.

Why not? Oh yeah, you don't have the power to do it. It is available,
if you want it. You are making a lot of excuses for staying with what
you have. that is fine, but don't go saying that others don't
need/want the new power that is available.

> OS/2 continues to be the ATM OS-of-choice. If this
> were no longer the case
> would we not hear about it?

What rock have you been hiding under? There has been a LOT of
discusion about ATMs being converted to windows, getting virused, and
hacked from all angles, and going back to OS/2, then being converted
back to windows, with a whole load of antivirus software, and third
party firewalls, to make them actually work.

> I actually met a guy
> who runs a string of ATMs
> along the NY/VT border. His os= good old OS/2,
> guess which version?

Probably 2.0, but in ATM's, the base OS is used in a command line
mode, and all of the function is programmed on top of that.

> > Just my $.02...
>
> Regards,
> -dj

I think you have missed a lot in life. Enjoy warp4, for as long as you
can...
--
>From the eComStation 1.2 of Doug Bissett
doug dot bissett at attglobal dot net
(Please make the obvious changes, to e-mail me)

.

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