Re: Strange PEER error with Dani's 506 1.81 generic question

Hi Mike

Mike Luther wrote:
Yes Peter - my error completely on this one.

Peter Brown wrote:

Hi Mike


The "Dani Drivers" *Replace* the IBM drivers.

If you use these 2 lines

BASEDEV=DANIS506.ADD
BASEDEV=DANIATAPI.FLT

you do not need the IBM IDE drivers and should either REM those lines or delete them.


Until fairly recently I used scsi hard drives, U160/U320 hanging off an Adaptec 29160, and I used to preceed the above 2 lines with

BASEDEV=AICU160.ADD

I think I read somewhere that the order of the drivers is not important these days - possibly in an eCS ng - but old habits die hard :-)

Regards

Pete

Well, sometimes yes as to order of the drivers, but as I have still noticed, still sometimes no. So I'll hold the working order deal for the moment here just to be safe.

When I 'read' the docs on her latest release, I did notice that her ATAPI file system tool was paired with this release in the 1.8.0 combo. And that the second release of the 1.8.1 for here DaniS506.ADD build followed shortly on Hobbs, which I picked up with the ATAPI package. But I failed to understand that the two had to be used in combination with the ATAPI package in replacement of the IBM offerings. That the IBM code wouldn't work at all with her 1.8 level releases.

My error completely.

OK, now after at least a start at a better reading of the documentation, I'm even more concerned about how what I may face in how things are set up here and there on all the boxes around me in order to move forward to this level of her work.

First, a really large number of the systems around me are still SCSI systems which use not only SCSI hard drives, but also SCSI DAT drive tape backup systems, additional SCSI hard drives which can be plugged in, but are not normally there, in mobile drive trays; as well as, in some cases actual SCSI CD-RW units. I also use RSJ heavily for CD write and backup/CD cloning purposes - with temporary higher letter drive ghosting - on the SCSI stuff.

The only use there for the IDE interface is another CD or DVD device for read purposes. This major release also involves, as I note from the documentation, the 'normal' ability to present the IDE devices as SCSI devices. The inherent formula under which this IDE to SCSI interface is done assumes that a MASTER device on the IDE cable is given over to the SCSI (0) unit! The slave comes next.


Tip: Burners seem to prefer to be Master with ROMs as Slave rather than the reverse.


Thus one better be darned careful
about setting up an IDE CD device as a MASTER on any cable! But that flies in the face about data I/O speeds, as well as the requirement, as I understand things, that the CD device has to be a MASTER to be used for boot purposes if you are using, for example, the IBM install CD-ROM disks, or a modified version of this technique for custom boot CD-ROM operations.


Sorry but I'm not sure what the problem is here...

It has been a while since I last used the good old command line

cdrecord2 -scanbus > scsi.txt

to generate a report of scsi and "fake scsi" devices on a mixed scsi hard drives/ide dvd burner and dvd-rom system but I seem to recall that all scsi devices got listed before any ide devices - including the scsi scanner I had.

Maybe someone else can check that for you.


cdrecord2 is a package for creating and burning cds, you should be able to find the current release on hobbes.

The speed issue you mention is surely related to mixing an atapi device and ide hard drive on the same ide controller - the hard drive would be as slow as the atapi device.


As regards booting from an atapi device:

some of that is BIOS related ie if the BIOS allows booting from atapi device 2 then it will work for some boot CD/DVDs.

Some software insists on a particular device because the software has been built to work that way eg Bootable http://www.xs4all.nl/~hrbaan/bootAble/index.html

When you create a BootableCD using that software it will want to boot from whichever device it was burnt to eg I recently created a BootableCD in drive V: (dvd burner) and when I tried booting with the disc in drive W: (dvd-rom) it failed - because the BootableCD is particular to the system that it is created for and requires the same drive letter as was used during creation.

Long time since I last installed Warp4 so cannot remember if there are any limitations with the install CD... I seem to recall that the install always completed if there was a copy of the install cd in both burner and rom (Master and Slave) but could fail if there was only a copy in the burner.


Yes, all kinds of varients as to whether or not SCSI criss cross operation is done can be controlled through command line changes in the CONFIG.SYS.

But .. also, we face BIOS setup and boot preference issues where, for example, the 'normal' boot order, for setup, core level maintenance, are first device, floppy diskette, second device CD ATAPI, and third device SCSI hard disk on Drive C: in my case.

As I see this, as I sort of now first relate to this, the only way to really be 'safe' in my use of all this is to force no offering of the IDE devices to SCSI use at all. Which may defeat the purpose of doing what Dani has worked hard at; the ability to use some of the available CD/DVD utilities with IDE level units as pseudo-'SCSI' devices. So real study is needed here in this case.

As well, in this version of Dani's file system work, auto-forcing of floppy diskette drive units from drive A: to drive B:, in order to get a 'required' CD boot device 'authenticity' as 'drive A:', could be a real disaster for the real last ditch ability to work with the floppy drive unit for boot purposes or backup and restore or cloning with DFSEE.



BootableCD may have the option that you need as it does not need to pretend to be drive A: to boot - uses memdisk instead.


Second, in the case of the OS/2 laptop arena, I'm heavily using plug-in floppy diskette units for floppy diskette access, which are absolutely required for some parts of the backup and clone/restore operations with USB plug in hard drive drives. That with USB second hard drive connection through after boot re-discover operation for backup and restore or cloning with DFSEE here as well.

I've also been solidly able to actually boot the R40, R50 and T42 Thinkpads from the USB plug-in hard drive units, which also, as I see this, is going to need some serious research with this new level of Dani's code. Save this for secondary research.

As to the first issues here on the SCSI affairs. Am I right, in your opinion, to default the pair of these tools to no SCSI translation?

Thanks Pete!







I think you should setup 1 box and see how it goes without "defaulting" to no scsi translation.

I think you will find it all falls into place and works well with minimum human interference.

As you mention RSJ you may want to have a look through those docs and you will probably get the idea that people have been using atapi burners for quite a few years with a lot of success.

It is possible (but unlikely) you may run into unforeseen problems but that is what ngs are for :-)

Have fun

Pete
.

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