RE: pop-forum Re: getting rid of ALL the special ved characters indocumentation files
- From: "Anthony Worrall" <anthony.worrall@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:44:28 +0100
Hi Aaron
You can use the following but then you lose the search option.
http://www.poplog.cs.reading.ac.uk/poplog/popbook/index.html
Some browsers allow you to bookmark the contents of a frame.
Anthony
-----Original Message-----http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/poplog/freepoplog.html
From: Aaron Sloman [mailto:A.Sloman@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 30 June 2009 00:19
To: pop-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: pop-forum Re: getting rid of ALL the special ved characters
indocumentation files
Thanks to all who have replied to my message.
I have created an experimental release with all the documentation
stripped (unless I missed some!) here
http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/poplog/v15.63
with the usual get-and-install scripts in anyone wants to try that:
http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/poplog/v15.63/get-and-
install-v15.63-poplog
fetch and install poplog in the default location
/usr/local/poplog
http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/poplog/v15.63/get-and-
install-v15.63-poplog-here
fetch and install poplog in the directory below the one
from which the get-and-install-here script is invoked.
I shall later try producing a version of v15.63-amd64 poplog, but
that will depend on my copying it to a 64bit machine to recompile
the $popsrc/initial.p with the new pop_internal_version (15.6300)
Ian Morgan <kangaroo232002@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Certainly I think the language lives or dies partly as a result of
the community and the documentation, so any degree of online
documentation would make pop11 much more usable for people to learn
the language as part of an academic course, and also for those
wanting to improve the community, create additions to the language
and become aware of the language in the first place.
There has been a lot of online documentation, but most of it has
never worked in a web browser or text editors apart from ved and
emacs with the vedemacs package. Anthony's html version has been
available for some time, but is based on an earlier version of
poplog and since then the documentation has been updated and
reorganised.
As you mentioned the format is a bit old fashioned, so it might be
good to automatically go through and add standard CSS, as well as
edit the files to hyperlink both within the same files (as Enter G
once did) and between files (which I can't remember Enter G doing).
That's what happens on the Reading Poplog Online site:
http://www.poplog.cs.reading.ac.uk/
(Unfortunately it uses frames, which looks quite nice, though I
always avoid them because they make bookmarking difficult and can
screw up other things.)
It would also be good to have a standard method of accessing the
files through a home page, using some sort of search. I think that
the PHP site (http://www.php.net/) is a good example of what good
documentation is about.
Currently I am treating this as the 'home' page,
http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/poplog/freepoplog.html
But my style is not the best and I don't have much time to do a
really good job. I have, however, recently drastically modified this
part:
#whatspoploghttp://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/poplog/freepoplog.html
And inserted a section on teaching materials with a lot of links (to
stripped versions of files):
#teaching
It also links to Waldek's documentation, wikipedia entries, the
Computers and Thought book, the Pop-11 primer, and the Reading web
site.
Unfortunately www.poplog.org has disappeared completely (it's not
known to DNS servers) and because it disabled robots it has not been
stored on the 'wayback' web site. I should have found a way to make
a mirror of the bits that don't mirror the bham site.
The current list of documentation files linked to (mainly intended
to interest people who are considering using Pop-11 for teaching, at
various levels) is still somewhat ad hoc, but gives a feel for the
variety of things available that could be relevant to teaching.
If someone is aware of teaching resources that should be linked from
there but haven't been please let me know. Ideally there should be a
collection of sample "syllabus structures" composed of existing
documentation (plus relevant libraries).
I haven't used pop11 for quite some time (since I was doing the
course at birmingham in fact) but I would be more than happy to help
put something together if you think it's required. Any subsequent
editor in JAVA could then connect to the documentation URL and
provide a summary of a function, or concept.
Thanks for the offer. We really need a web site that allows pop-11
code to be edited and run, with access to the documentation, which
can be used either to run poplog on a remote machine (as already
happens with the Birmingham Eliza
http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/cogaff/eliza/
)
Or can be used to run poplog on the local machine.
I.e. we should allow people to replace Ved/XVed with a editing
enabled browser as Nico suggested.
Textual interaction would not be too hard (as in eliza), but
allowing graphical commands (using rc_graphic or rclib for example)
would probably be very difficult (except for users who alread have a
local X server running).
I believe those that are available for Windows are not cheap (e.g.
eXceed costs over $500).
Aaron
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