Re: Prototype - Good/Bad/Why?

On Feb 16, 5:55 pm, "Richard Cornford" <Rich...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
timothytoe wrote:
have you worked out which post you are replying to yet?

No, could you please help me with that?

OK. You are using Google groups so you start off with a huge disadvantage
because all of its defaults are now geared toward Google's own web forums
rather than Usenet. Web forums tend to be linear and all new posts are
effectively just appended to a list. Usenet is 'threaded', which means that
discussions are tree-like in form. A discussion starts with a posted message
(know as the OP (for Original Post, though OP is also used to refer to the
Original Poster (the individual who makes the original post))), any number
of people may reply that OP and each reply can be subject to other replies,
thus each reply to the OP potentially becomes a branch in the tree structure
of the thread (though it may end up being a leaf if it does not get
responded to).

Most of the people who regularly use the group are doing so through
dedicated news servers (provided by their ISPs or as commercial service by
third parties (the days of free public news servers seem to have gone)) and
are using 'newsreader' software that is geared to presenting Usenet in its
threaded form.

This is not to say that Google groups interface cannot show Usenet in its
threaded form. Go to a discussion listing and click on the word 'Options' at
the right end of the grey bar that contains the subject to expand some
'links' that provide display options. One of those options is labelled "View
as tree", and clicking it shows Google's best effort at a tree display of
the thread. That should make things clearer.

It is also a good idea to also use the 'fixed font' option because ascii art
and various common text highlighting strategies rely upon the reader using a
fixed width font, as otherwise there is no telling how wide the reader's
characters (especially spaces) are. Also, avoid using tabs to indent code
(use (possibly multiple) spaces instead) because the display capabilities
and defaults of newsreaders when handling tabs varies enormously.

If you want to see the mechanism behind Usenet threading use the "more
options" 'link' at the top of each message and click the "Show original"
option. This shows the individual message with its headers (though google
always mangle everything that looks like an e-mail address). Not that each
message has a Message-ID header that uniquely identifies the message, and a
References header that describes its context in the tree of the thread by
listing the chain of Message-ID from the original post at the beginning to
the message that the current message is responding to at the end.

While you are there note that a Content-Type header should exist and specify
"text/plain". Usenet is normally (and comp.lang.javascript always) a plain
text medium (no HTML posts, mixed content posts or attachments here). That
explains why you don't need PRE elements in order to retain text formatting,
and why <i>xxx</i> doesn't work. There are Usenet conventions for
*emphasis*, _underline_ and /stress/ in plain text messages.

While you are in the 'options' at the top of each message, to the far left
is a 'Reply' option that has historically been the most effective at
providing the previous message body in a quoted form and replying
effectively to the specific message. There have been many (often extended)
periods when the similar link at the bottom of the message has either failed
to reply to the specific message or not provide the previous message in
quoted form. Remember that Google's javascript developers (and particularly
the ones working on google groups) are quite astoundingly bad, so you can
consider yourself lucky if anything works properly/consistently over any
period of time. Despite that you will be held responsible for what you post,
so keep your eyes open for when google f**k-up, because they will (and
blaming them will not get you very far).

In that context, be particularly cautions of google's habit of inserting
statements like "Show quoted text" into the material they present as a
'quote' of the pervasions message. The accuracy of any quotes you post are
your responsibility. You may edit the irrelevant/superfluous (appropriately
marking such edits so there is no doubt about what you have done) but you
must not change the wording of whatever you do quite and you certainly must
not add anything because that would be (literally or by implication) putting
words into other people's moths and be disingenuous at the very least.
Remember, it is no good blaming google, you are 100% responsible for
everything _you_ post.

There is a conventional/traditional form for Usenet posts. You can find out
more about this through the group's FAQ (hint: it is in the faq notes). We
expect to see that form followed here. The reasoning goes; A well
formed/complete Usenet post requires a little discipline, while browser
scripting requires a lot of discipline, so an individual who cannot
demonstrate the former is going to be a hopeless case with regard to the
latter. That may seem harsh and a little arbitrary but experience has not
invalidated it.

Richard.
--
"When performing string concatenation the result is always a new string
object rather than a modified version of the original string." - John Resig:
Pro JavaScript Techniques. 2006

Ah, I see. Some of you are still reading on Usenet. I've not done it
that way for a few years. I understand the confusion now. Makes
perfect sense. Thanks.
.

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