Re: typeof for feature testing host methods

David Mark said the following on 12/18/2007 9:07 AM:
On Dec 18, 2:07 am, Randy Webb <HikksNotAtH...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Peter Michaux said the following on 12/18/2007 12:30 AM:





On Dec 17, 5:30 am, David Mark <dmark.cins...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Dec 17, 1:12 am, Randy Webb <HikksNotAtH...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
[snip]
And that is part of the problem with the current state of AJAX
applications. Just dumping code in and hoping it works just to be able
to say "Yeah, its an AJAX site. We know it is crap, it doesn't work
right in half the world, and it is grossly inefficient, but, IT'S AJAX!!".
Thanks to widespread abuse by incompetent developers, Ajax may be the
worst thing that ever happened to the Web. I particularly dislike
sites that use Ajax/innerHTML for page navigation. When the
developers of such sites find out that they broke the browser
navigation buttons, rather than seeing that they made a mistake, they
add bogus hashes and timers to compensate. Then they find out that
their inline scripts don't work, requiring additional insane
workarounds (as you are well aware.)
Using the hash to make bookmark friendly URLs can be a very good user
experience, in my opinion. Technically there is a flaw that in some
browsers the page may reload. This is actually the case in some
versions of Safari. However I think the idea of using the hash this
way is great in a page like <URL:http://maps.yahoo.com> when dragging
the map around.
That was one of the issues that I spent a lot of time dealing with at
work was the ability for a user to return to where they were in a .js
file driven system. What we ended up with was a hidden form in every
.html file that kept track of what .js files were loaded, what data was
in what forms, any information needed to return it back to the state it
was in when the user wanted to bookmark it. There is a link in the upper
right corner of each page that is a "Bookmark" link that a user clicks

Right. You created your own interface, which makes more sense than
trying to force the browser's navigation system to handle persistence
within the pages.

It is just about the only way to be able to bookmark a dynamic page and be able to return it back to the state and do it reliably.

on that submits the hidden form to the server. The server then saves the
information into a database and returns a page to the user with a URL
with a hash that is associated with the database entry. Since 99% of
what is done on the Intranet is time critical, no DB entry is left for
more than 30 days. It gets purged. On average, with 100,000+ terminals,
the DB has around 500,000 entries in it.

The #1 complaint the first thirty days after we implemented it? "That is
too much trouble".

Complaint from whom? The DB admins?

The users. "Why can't I just right-click>Add to Favorites like I used to do it?" We actually ended up going to every location and explaining how to use it. The ones that wanted to know more we taught how the system works on the back end. I had upwards of 10,000 complaints that first thirty days.

The #1 request after six months of using the system? "Can you do that
for websites as well?". Now, we are working on the same type of system
to run as part of the proxy system to insert the hidden form into any
website page for Favorites use.

And, Favorites is one of the sticking issues with converting the entire
company website to a .js file driven system. How well the proxy system
works will give me a pretty fair indication of well it will potentially
work on the website.

As for AJAX, I think the future of it depends on whether people keep
crutching it or finally realize that in order for it to work and give
the benefits that it can give. And in order to take maximum advantage of
the benefits you have to redesign and rethink the entire website
strategy from the ground up rather than trying to integrate the two
together. It is either an AJAX site or it isn't, there is no in between
with it.


If you want to eliminate all traditional page navigation (which seems
like a silly idea) then that is true.

How you navigate through a system depends on how the system functions. The application that uses .js files has very little "traditional navigation" as most of it is done dynamically. It does have some basic navigation to get from one area to another (say from accounts receivable to time clock). It is one of the things that has to be dealt with. Whether you want to deal with a navigation issue for the benefits of a dynamic site. It is a trade off and every situation is different and you have to deal with them one at a time.

However, Ajax enhancements (e.g. form validation, auto-suggestion, etc.) can be added easily enough to standard sites.

Other than possibly looking something up in a database, I don't see where form validation using AJAX is of any benefit. Meaning, if you are going to send it to the server you may as well just submit the form. Auto-suggestion was something I looked at when Google first did it and found it very annoying so I lost interest in it.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/
.

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