Re: State of Forth 200x

"John Doty" <jpd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:h_idnQned7vdrBvZnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Elizabeth D Rather wrote:

There are, obviously, various kinds of users. One is the kind you were speaking of, who wish to get involved to the extent of understanding some Forth plus application words and tinkering with the program, even though they don't think of themselves as professional programmers.

I'm thinking of the kind who *don't* wish to get involved in programming, indeed strongly wish not to, but must. Why must they? Because they're dealing with cutting edge technology that they don't understand very well (but nobody understands it better than they do). In particular, they don't understand it well enough to tell a programmer what they need. I can help them, I have some pretty broad experience with this kind of stuff, but I'm far from omniscient. I really need to see what they try, even if it isn't very good code. It's much easier to clean up a good idea badly coded than a bad idea well coded. But they have to try.

Yes, we have some of those, too.

A major strength of Forth is that applications can be tailored to serve the needs of both types of users, even though their needs are quite different.

A major weakness of ANS Forth is that it is really two different languages, unlike, say, the Unix shell. That makes it harder for nonprogrammers to learn and use. ANS Forth's design priority seems to me to have been slick metaprogramming, not straightforward coding.

Well, that's where I disagree. I don't in any way see it as "two different languages," and I find non-programmers pick up what they need quite easily.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

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Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH
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