Re: Why forth is not popular

Unlike some here, I don't think Paul is a troll. What he says is "common knowledge" even though a lot of it's based on incorrect or incomplete information.

"Paul Marciano" <pm940@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:1135046769.447347.294420@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 

jmdrake_98@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

The truth is <snip> 

The only truth here is that Forth is a small curiosity of a language,
kept alive by a few die-hard fans.  It's not mainstream.  If you line
up all the programmers in the world and shoot the ones the know Forth
in the head, no one would notice.

Actually, there are some fairly important groups in some large companies (e.g. IBM, Sun) that would be fairly seriously inconvenienced.

Forth's a great little language.  I'm still busy learning it...
because, like me, it's small and fast and slightly odd.  But don't
waste your time comparing it to mainstream languages.  There's really
no point, except to cereberally masterbate over how so darn clever
Forth is.

If you're a company trying to develop a widget that's smaller, faster, and cheaper than its competition, there can be a lot of point. We've helped quite a few companies do just that.

Everyone programs in C, C++, C#, Java, VB, PHP, Python or Perl.
Everyone.

They're dominant in some circles, but 'everyone' is something of an exaggeration. We've had a thriving business for over 30 years without using any of those.

...

In the context of a commercial project, I don't see the sense in using
a language that nobody knows.  It doesn't matter how X, Y or Z it is...
if I can't count on a constant stream of college grads who are trained
in it, then it's of no use to me.

Fortunately most college grads I' ve met are still capable of learning. It isn't that hard to learn Forth. And it's used in some colleges (though rarely in the CS depts, more commonly in engineering).

Today, Forth is an academic plaything with a good history.  I don't see
anything wrong with that.  And like all those 8-bit computers that are
lovingly kept in working order by their owners, Forth too will be kept
in working order by the four or five people who attend the standards
meetings.

Not to mention companies such as FORTH, Inc. and MPE who are continually working to build better Forth systems to satisfy their demanding customers. In my experience that's been where the important technical advances come from. Standards meetings can at best attempt to codify 'common practice'. It's companies such as ours (and others who are using Forth in major real-world projects) that drive the technology forward.

...

Things have become more complicated over time.  It used to be parallel
ports and RS232.  Now it's USB and Ethernet.  Heck, even ASCII has been
replaced with Unicode.  These ain't your daddy's chars.  These are two
bytes, baby.

Make no mistake: Forth has come a long way since the 80's, just like C and friends. It supports all the new technology and processors, with better compilers, more powerful development environments, and even unicode (when needed).

Forth is a simpler language for a simpler time.  Loved by those who
appreciate the simple pleasure of sitting on hot metal and pushing bits
one by one.

You may not be a troll, but I'm afraid you're pretty out of touch with respect to today's Forth technology and the areas in which it's being used. Check out our web site, or MPEs. Try one of our free evaluation systems. Catch up with the times.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

--
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310-491-3356
5155 W. Rosecrans Ave. #1018  Fax: +1 310-978-9454
Hawthorne, CA 90250
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

.

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