Re: Material that does no scroll in web page
- From: "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:10:41 -0500
Christian Hackl wrote:
GTalbot wrote:
So if a main browser manufacturer with all its huge financial, huge
technical resources still can not provide a browser version that can
support a 10 years old CSS specification,
To my knowledge, there is no web browser that supports the entire CSS2 specification. Obviously, CSS2 support is much better in Firefox/Opera, but I'm sure if it was so easy to upgrade CSS support in IE, Microsoft would have done so already. Don't forget that such descisions are not ruled by technical considerations alone. Backward compatibility is a huge issue.
True, but it is a matter of disparity. IE misses on a much larger chunk and what it does "support" is riddled with numerous bugs and sometimes just plain incorrect implementation. If backward compatibility then you would expect that their different versions would handle their proprietary methods consistently, but they don't. One could argue that marketshare drives them to resist, non-compliance keeps designers perpetuating non-compliant designs thereby maintaining their marketshare... Once their marketshare stated to slip to an alternate browser, *only then* did MS decide to "embrace" standards, sort of...
then it's time to invite users/visitors to switch or to upgrade.
That's not your decision but that of the user.
In the web and in this web inter-connection logic, browser
manufacturers have a responsibility. Web authors (and content
providers at large) have a responsibility. Users have also a part, a
role, a responsibility as well.
Try to tell that last sentence to a user who's ready to spend money on your business website. "Sorry, your web browser from 2001 is too old and sucks. Our pages will look cra... uh, I mean degrade gracefully, but that's not our fault -- it's yours, because you, dear customer, have responsibilies as well. Please don't go to our competitor's website, anyway. Thank you."
Well when it isn't tied to the OS, the browser can auto upgrade as non-IE browsers do so it could be not a issue.
I can not agree with you on this: this is not what my experience leads
me to conclude. If the web author follows best coding practices
It's hard to tell which coding practices are best, isn't it? What constitutes a good coding practice? That which is used on most successful websites such as Amazon and eBay? Table layouts and ugly inline styles abound on their pages. That tells you something about how horrible the current situation of web authoring languages really is.
Yep, and you can choose to perpetuate it or change. There are benifits to change.
In fact, I've personally been studying and teaching how to use semantic markup and tableless layouts for about 6 years, and yet I don't see any progress at all. No professional website used by myself on a daily basis has even remotely clean HTML code. It seems that if you want to play safe, you just take a <table> and forget about semantic markup. It's disappointing, but it's reality, and it frustrates me to a point where I almost stop caring.
Don't mean you have to create *your* sites that way, who is pointing the gun to your head?
You have to choose between putting hacks into the markup (by abusing
tables for layout) and putting them into the stylesheet (by abusing
properties for something they were never intended for).
I can not agree with you. You give a general perspective, opinion. No
example, no concrete reference I can examine...
Fine, here's an example of a hack for creating a three-colum layout on a web page:
<div id="content">
...
</div>
<div id="navigation">
...
</div>
<div id="related">
...
</div>
#content { margin-left:20em; margin-right:20em }
#navigation {position:absolute; left:0; top:0; width:20em }
#related {position:absolute; right:0; top:0; width:20em }
It's a hack because the stylesheet abuses the "position" and "margin" properties for something they have not been intended for.
How's that?
Just take a look and examine the semantics more closely: #content should have a left margin of 20em, yet when you look at the page there will be no visible left margin at all. Stating that you want a margin when you actually want something else is not that much different from stating that something is tabular data when it really is not.
The margin it to clear the "position:absolute" block that is not in the page flow! This is correct behavior and proper method.
But it's getting worse: the code introduces dependencies. The value of the "margin-left"/"margin-right" properties in one declaration depend entirely on the values of the "width" properties in other declarations. If you would like to change the width of the navigation column, you cannot just say "width:23em", you have to edit other parts of the code as well.
Here's another example of a CSS hack:
<div id="navigation">
...
</div>
<div id="related">
...
</div>
<div id="content">
...
</div>
#navigation { float:left; width:20% }
#related { float:right; width:20% }
#content { width:50% }
This is a hack because it introduces dependencies between declarations (see above) and even stronger dependencies between the HTML code and the stylesheet (possible ways of ordering the columns depend on the order of the elements in the markup), and because it abuses the "float" property.
Where does it say one rule is not supposed to rely or depend on another? What about cascade?
--
Take care,
Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
.
- Follow-Ups:
- Re: Material that does no scroll in web page
- From: Christian Hackl
- Re: Material that does no scroll in web page
- Prev by Date: Re: How do I make a dotted line on a restaurant menu?
- Next by Date: Re: Material that does no scroll in web page
- Previous by thread: How do I make a dotted line on a restaurant menu?
- Next by thread: Re: Material that does no scroll in web page
- Index(es):
Relevant Pages
|
