Re: grid structures: TABLE/TR/TD vs. DIV

On Sun, 07 May 2006 23:43:19 +0100 Steve Pugh <steve@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
| phil-news-nospam@xxxxxxxx wrote:
|>On Sun, 07 May 2006 11:52:37 +0100 Steve Pugh <steve@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
|>| phil-news-nospam@xxxxxxxx wrote:
|>|>On Sat, 06 May 2006 23:54:28 +0100 Steve Pugh <steve@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
|
|>|>| Who ever suggested that it can't be a block of text?
|>|>
|>|>Other respondents in this newsgroup.
|>|
|>| Care to post the messages IDs?
|>
|>Why would I keep a record of that, for what seemed, at that time, something
|>with no great controversy? Do you keep a record of every message ID of
|>everything you discuss when it's about something you are not an expert in
|>just in case someone later on says "oh, that's not true, give me the message
|>ID of that"? That's just not a common, or practical practice, any more
|>than expecting you to police every thread (otherwise I could say "why were
|>you not there to refute it on the spot").
|
| If you still have the copies of the messages that you downloaded to
| read then you can just look them up in your newsreader. I keep threads
| so long as I'm participating in them and I keep really interesting
| posts for longer. Or you can go to Google Groups and search for the
| posts in questions. 'cos at the moment you're saying that "someone
| said something" but not offering any cites to back that up.

My news reader does not pre-download. And Google Groups' interface
is lousy and hard to use.

And it may not have been in Usenet at all.


| Maybe someone did say what you think they said, maybe they said
| something different and you misunderstood, maybe your making stuff up,
| how can I tell?

You can't tell, and it doesn't matter. The way I deal with such a
conflict is try resolve it in the current context. I'm not using any
of the statements I only remember summaries of to dispute what you
say. I'm only using them to relate to what you say to better clarify
things, or to figure out what I might have misunderstood before, or
see what someone else didn't know.


|>|>| You're rapidly approaching Luigi levels of obliviousness.
|>|>
|>|>No meaning to me from that.
|>|
|>| Google for Luigi in alt.html. You remind me of him.
|>
|>In what way?
|>
|>FYI, I'm not actually going to look. I have no interest in following
|>some useless thread of conversation somewhere else. And I should not
|>have followed this one aside from the fact that doing so finally led
|>me to something that worked. The average person would probably have
|>given up before a working example was seen.
|
| Tell me about it. I have no idea why I've put up with this thread for
| so long.

It's your choice.

If you'd only given a partial explanation (and that's usually what I
see from almost everyone in the first response), and then quite, that
might lead to even more confusion.

I could be working from a lot of misinformation. If your response
corrects some elements of that misinformation, but leaves others not
addressed at all, then I could have a worse mix of information. But
at least if I then recognize that the mix is inconsistent, I will ask
for an explanation. Then I can find out if I misunderstood what you
said, or find out of the other information was just wrong.

Does that make sense, yet?


|>| But if each row specified a time period (and hence each cell could
|>| contain multiple news stories,) then that would be a table. It
|>| wouldn't matter in which order a speech browser read out the stories
|>| so lng
|>
|
| Whoops, I missed off the end of that sentence
| "It wouldn't matter in which order a speech browser read out the
| stories so long as reference was given to the row and column headers
| so that the context was known."

Ah.


|>I think the order should matter.
|
| Should speech browsers read across rows or down columns? Or should
| they give the user the choice? And should they give users the choice
| to pick a cell from the middle of the table and listen to that cell in
| isolation? Sighted users can choose how they read a table because
| their presentation is 2d, blind users have a 1d presentation. Proper
| HTML markup give speech readers access to the document semantics so
| that that 1d presentation doesn't become a hindrance.

Blind users can also use a 2D feedback device to find elements to be
read. But, sure, all these things should be choosable.

It would also be nice to have a choice, as a sighted user, to flip a
table along either axis, or the diagonal.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http://phil.ipal.org/ http://ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
.

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