Re: CFLs flicker when Wall Swtich WS467 is OFF

"Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1963@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:BZ-dnc3H36JzD0fanZ2dnUVZ_oKhnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxx
"Jim Hewitt" <jim.hewitt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Howdy,

I've been slowlyg trying CFLs in the house to see if they work OK wtih
our
X10 installation. We've decided that the quality of light is acceptable
for
the energy $ savings.

But, when I put some (N:Vision from Home Depot) 60W CFLs in the kids'
room
overehad light, controlled by a WS467, everything was fine until I turned
the lights off. They don't go fully off! We get a very low light
flicker,
probably 5-10 times a second. I triple-checked, the wall switch was not
dimming the lights.

The N:Visions are the best of the CFL's I've tried so far, but with single
fixture overhead lights governed by a WS467, I get some pretty awful
results. TGD in the X-10 support forum recently suggested a "fix" here
that
involves inserting resistors into light fixtures:

http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=14210.0

but a knowledgeable person I asked had profound reservations about such a
"fix" or more exactly the resistor ratings given as examples. It would be
*very* nice to maintain local sense and eliminate the flashing problems,
but
it seems as if it's one or the other. I'm in the midst of a complete
rewire
of my house, bringing neutrals to places where I really want to use a CFL
bulb but can't because of the havoc it causes X-10. It's a real bitch and
in many cases I am just running a new cable to a new fixture from the
basement up. I want the option for tungsten in the real cold weather and
dual fixtures would allow that. Not sure of the SAF, but I'll find out.
The light switch wires that came with the house go from the basement to
the
attic and then fan out and drop down. Not an easy task to add a neutral
wire.

It's too bad they haven't designed a CFL that simulates a tungsten bulb's
electrical properties more closely. I just bought a brand new batch of
bulbs of various wattages from HD. I've found the electronics in CFL's
varies from brand to brand and from batch to batch and I wouldn't be
surprised if someday they produce a bulb that's completely X-10
compatible.
And affordable. (-: So, let me save this message and try out the new
bulbs
on my overhead lights.

(much "screwing" around . . .)

OK, I'm back. I tried the brand new N:vision SKU 772-20 Model ES42 42W
V42836 (I hope that last number's not a firmware version number!) in the
hopes that the larger wattage and the more recent vintage would help and
it
flickered. I thought that the 13W load of the 60W "equivalent" bulb
caused
problems because it was below the 25W threshold X-10 recommends for lamp
loads. There was no difference between the two. I took a camera and made
a
swipe image at 1 second and counted 6 images of the bulb, so I believe
it's
6 flashes per second. (-:

We get a very low light flicker, probably 5-10 times a second. I
triple-checked, the wall
switch was not dimming the lights.

I think the module's electronics are not working and probably couldn't
dim,
even if you wanted to dim them. At least mine don't. Unlike your lights,
there's no option to put in a smaller bulb to carry the trickle in my
overheads. But in thinking about it more, running a big CFL at the
ceiling,
base up isn't a good idea, even though my lamp shade allows good air
cooling. Virtually every very premature failure I've had (20+ and
counting)
with CFL bulbs has been in a base-up configuration. I need to find some
torchiere lamps specifically designed for large CFL's so the bulb head
doesn't sit above the lamp rim. Then I can use RF switches and perhaps
even
preserve local control.

Anyone having this problem with N:Vision CFL's should report it to their
tech support hotline at 1-800-378-6998. They can't find a solution for
the
problem if they don't know it exists or how many people it affects. My
three biggest gripes are:

1) The bulbs don't shut off completely and flicker about once a second,
sometimes for hours. I know from the new HE shoplight that I bought that
this causes premature aging. Only one bulb of the 2 strip 48" fixture
flashed, and that's the one that six months later has large dark spots at
the end of the bulb.

2) The lamps "relight" themselves, which I believe is an extension of
number
one, but in this case, the trickle current doesn't just cause a flash, it
makes the module think the light switch has been "jiggled."

3) The problem you're having of the bulb flashing wildly in a fixture that
doesn't have a direct connection to a neutral wire.

I'd like dimming to be seamless, too, but I can live without it if I can
get
some relief on one through three!

It may be that with some circuit redesign they can eliminate or ameliorate
some of the problems. What I find most troublesome are lamps that test
fine
when I first got them but as they age, begin emitting noise strong enough
to
step on the X-10 signal.

I'll think about calling the hotline - unless it means an endless navigation
and then wait through phone menus. But you're right - they can't address an
issue if they don't know about it.

I am not currently experiencing any no flicker or re-lighting - except as I
already desribed with the ws467. As for the fix, it is in a way similar to
the other patch of putting a small wattage bulb in parallel. But somehow I
also have a funny feeling about the resistor. Like I said, my current plan
is to use one of each type bulb since the fixture holds two bulbs.

Not dimming is not an issue. I rarely use diming for mood or ambience, but
rather for energy savings. With CFLs, we're already there*! *We hope...

I'm most concerned about the premature failure when installed base-up. The
biggest (energy) savings I hope to realize is using the flood CFLs in our
kitchen recessed lighting - thse are ALL base up. Normally 300 watts
incandescent for a good half of the day. I calculate that it will only take
about 5-6 months to pay for the CFL bulbs with the energy savings. If they
fail prematurely because they are base-up, then what savings do I have???

Also, my overhead lights are in an enclosed fixture. Will I also see
premature failure in htis installation? It is hard for me to detemine if
there will really be any savings as I don't know how long these lights are
on each day - certinaly no more than an hour or two.

As for premature failures - do you have much luck in getting reimbursed by
either HD or N:Vision when they fail early? The package LOUDLY claims that
they will last 7 years... If I don't get at least a year, then I don't
think it's worth the effort/risk (mercury disposal).

And the increased noise with age is also troubling. I thought life was good
when I got several CFLs in and X-10 still works OK (for other lights). But
if my X-10 is going to get swamped over time, them I have lost. Do you also
see this with the N:Vision CFLSs?

Thank you.

Jim


.

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