Re: OT: Rant over "I now bliefe in Gobal Worming"

On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:24:15 -0600, jim <".sjedgingN0sp"@m@xxxxxxx>
wrote:



Eric Jacobsen wrote:

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 21:52:58 -0600, jim <".sjedgingN0sp"@m@xxxxxxx>
wrote:



Eric Jacobsen wrote:

Some other worthwhile searches for you might be about pivot well

As I said before only 10 percent of the corn grown for ethanol is irrigated. the
USDA keeps statistics - look it up. And pivot wells are only economical where
there is a good shallow source of water like next to rivers. Tapping into deep
aquifers is just not economically efficient unless you are growing a crop that
yields more $$ per acre than corn. That is why so little of it is irrigated.

My point was on the drawing down of major aquifers to support ethanol
production, specifically the Ogallala and Madison. Quite a few pivot
well farms (many thousands), that grow corn, draw from those aquifers.
I don't know how that fact can be denied. One only needs to spend a
little time looking at the plains states farms with the satellite view
on google maps to see the massive amount of land that is cultivated
via pivot wells, and those draw from the aquifers in question.

Your thinking is so muddled, it's hard to know where to begin....

Well, let's see who's muddled.

The issue was not whether irrigation exists. You were trying to link ethanol
production as the cause of irrigation.

No, not at all. Try to cite where I said that.

I suspect you meant something different, but I'm only going to respond
to what you say rather than assuming what you really meant to say.

And irrigation as a cause of a calamity
with the underground water system.

I have cited a well-known issue where the major aquifers are being
drawn down at an unsustainable rate. When they're no longer able to
support food production in the central plains we'll pretty much have a
calamity, yeah. Accelerating that calamity by using that water for
questionable returns, like ethanol production, is central to my point.

I provided a few URLs supporting that conclusions, although it's
pretty well known. A lot more sources providing the data and
conclusion are easily searched.

The fact is that corn for ethanol is an
excellent crop for lands that are not irrigated. The return on investment for
irrigating No. 2 yellow corn is not as good as it is for irrigating other crops.

Nobody said that irrigation doesn't exist. You claim that ethanol production is
what caused the irrigation.

Uh, no.

Most of the corn grown for ethanol is grown in the
corn belt and not in the high plains and the corn grown in the midwest is not
irrigated. But more importantly, attempting to curtail ethanol production would
not in anyway change the irrigation practices in the great plains where corn is
not the major crop.

You need to drive through Nebraska in the summertime.

It may interest you to know that in 2006 five times as much corn was used for
other industrial (non-food) purposes than was used for ethanol. Why is nobody
squawking about that?

The resource cost of any product needs to be evaluated in the context
of that particular product. In this case (ethanol) the question is
whether something with a massive required production volume that
displaces (non-renewable) resources that could otherwise be used for
food production, makes sense in replacing another economically
available source. i.e., does it make sense to use energy and water
and land to make ethanol rather than petroleum-based products?

Don't forget that a major use of petroleum is to provide fertilizer
for the corn that is grown to replace it.

When evaluated on the whole I don't think it makes much sense for the
reasons I've cited.

Suggesting that since other industrial agriculture production makes
sense that corn for ethanol must therefore also make sense is a
non-sequitur and fallacy.

And it doesn't seem to bother you at all when corn is
grown to produce large quantities of animal fat.

Off topic.


http://geology.com/usgs/high-plains-aquifer.shtml

http://www.bookrags.com/research/ogallala-aquifer-enve-02/

Because these aquifers were born in geologic time scales, drawing them
down for questionable endeavors like ethanol production should be
questioned. That's my point.

farming and drought history in the US. Quite a lot of corn is grown
on irrigation that draws from the acquifers that I've already
mentioned.

This is just your wishful thinking . You have subsidies that don't subsidize and
irrigation that doesn't exist.

They're self evident enough for anyone who wants to look.

Sure you believe that so you haven't bothered to look.

Your grasping at straws there.

I've provided links to support the position. They weren't hard to
find and there were many more where those came from.

In fact, that's a lot of the reason the US corn crop was
still successful this year despite large amounts of corn crop failures
across the country due to this year's weather.

What do you imagine was wrong with the weather? There was little too much rain
in the early part of the season. Iowa had quite a bit of flood damage in June. I
suppose you imagine your phantom irrigation corrected the problem of too much
rain?

-jim

Having grown up in farming family heritage in South Dakota (that grew,
among other things, large quantities of corn), I'm very familiar that
for a farmer there's just about always something wrong with the
weather.

So now you are saying the crop failures due to weather that you referenced in
your previous post was just another thing you made up?

This seems to be symptomatic of your logic. How did you get that out
of the statement you seem to be responding to?

Eric Jacobsen
Minister of Algorithms
Abineau Communications
http://www.ericjacobsen.org

Blog: http://www.dsprelated.com/blogs-1/hf/Eric_Jacobsen.php
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: OT: Rant over "I now bliefe in Gobal Worming"
    ... this policy or program ethanol use and production would disappear. ... irrigating No. 2 yellow corn is not as good as it is for irrigating other crops. ... Nobody said that irrigation doesn't exist. ...
    (comp.dsp)
  • Re: OT: Rant over "I now bliefe in Gobal Worming"
    ... questionable returns, like ethanol production, is central to my point. ... irrigating No. 2 yellow corn is not as good as it is for irrigating other crops. ... Nobody said that irrigation doesn't exist. ...
    (comp.dsp)
  • Re: OT: Rant over "I now bliefe in Gobal Worming"
    ... irrigating No. 2 yellow corn is not as good as it is for irrigating other crops. ... Nobody said that irrigation doesn't exist. ... You claim that ethanol production is ...
    (comp.dsp)
  • Re: OT: Rant over "I now bliefe in Gobal Worming"
    ... Nebraska and South Dakota also grow immense ammounts of corn and draw ... have an interest in promoting ethanol, but not because they think it has ... been supplying huge amounts of corn and grain production for decades. ... The amount of water used for ethanol plants is insignificant compared to the ...
    (comp.dsp)
  • Hives
    ... delay is only a temporary setback in production in the Southeast. ... Originally scheduled to begin buying corn in the spring of 2007, ... begin construction on up to 10 ethanol facilities in the Southeast. ... If construction of the ethanol plants, planned in North Carolina, stay ...
    (rec.equestrian)