Re: Quote from student, after teaching Pick

Hi
4D on D3. Thanks Mike I love it. Of course one will have to add 4Don W3
now :-)
Peter McMurray

"mike ryder" <mg.ryder@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1180085838.400581.291260@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On May 25, 1:13 am, "Peter McMurray" <excalibu...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Tony
I agree entirely. The more flexible the environment - and therefore the
more potentially productive - the more discipline required from the
programmers. Unfortunately far too many are slapdash. I have been told
that VB6 is almost avant garde among many VB programmers who still
plough
along as though VB3 is the way to go. As for Pick programmers who
charge in
with code like
READ ITEM FROM FILE , KEY THEN
ITEM<27> = FRED
END ELSE
STOP
END
Personally I regard the advice that I got from NCR nigh on 35 years ago
is
still the best. "Write the user instructions first" . If one has not
designed the user interface for the suite, plus the business rule
interface,
plus the file interface then one should not be cutting any code. I have
often been regarded as slow in the initial phase of a project then
people
have shaken their heads in amazement at the speed of production of rock
solid code in the later stages.
Peter McMurray

"Tony Gravagno" <address.is.in.po...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
messagenews:4nhb5311fuc7tnbd6du1sjd347o0ggi994@xxxxxxxxxx

Anthony Lauder wrote:
This kind of "living on the edge" is really a great example of the
"hacker mentality" which is one of the things I do like about the pick
community: "we don't need all that fancy stuff, we just get on with
it".

At the same time, this "seat of your pants" style doesn't suit most
folks, and so modern technologies stop you from hanging yourself.

It's been established that people can write crap code in any language,
any framework, any protocol. While we can look at Pick BASIC as being
open by design, the truth is that it just hasn't matured over the
years. Structure exists in modern languages because they've learned
from their predecessors - we're sort of stuck in a moment in time.
Modern languages build in structures that allow developers to tighten
up code, to minimize the possibility of errors and better handle
errors that may occur, but like horses and water, no environment
compels the developer to use the tools that are available, even if it
will save them a lot of pain later.

I think too many people live on the edge in mainstream development.
There's too much hacker mentality and too much "just get on with it"
when what we need is QUALITY in software. With just a little VB6
experience, all of a sudden people think they are .NET developers. If
they know where to put a curly brace they're suddenly a PHP or Java
expert. After that, it's hack hack hack and people go to production.
Software quality is at an all time low - this isn't just my opinion,
it's evident everywhere and documented in innumerable studies and
commentaries.

Unfortunately, at the same time, many of those protections can stifle
your creativity (or really slow you down).

I agree that "seat of your pants" isn't for everyone but the problem
is getting the right people to realize that it's not for them, or
getting people to learn and use a little structure when they've gone
too far with their agile coding habits. Creativity is NOT stiffled by
structured coding - you can do agile development and then come back
and build in the structures. But yes the price for quality is a bit
more time invested up front rather than in Support and re-engineering
later. Maybe the trick is to do your agile hacking as a first pass,
but be willing to take the time to invest in quality as a planned
second pass. Given the experience of working with crap code from many
sources every single day, I would much rather pay the upfront cost if
it will give me back my evenings and weekends.

T

Aah Peter, that follows my methodology - I call it the 4D methodology
Design
Document
Develop
Deliver



.

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