Re: DesignBAIS/Dave Bryant


Symeon wrote:



As Tony says you can also "debug" your code in the DB app (browser
window) using debug variables which are displayed etc. So we can do it
both ways, tho only native in a session.

This approach is OK in a development environment, and we have all used
PRINT statements to achieve the same result. If your QA is 100% then
you will never have a (critical) issue in the field - if you DO have an
issue with a deployed app that comes from left field, then being able
to access the native debugging tools can be useful

I think the advantage Ross is saying about his stuff is that you get a
dialog window in the browser to enter native debug commands into the
debugger.... Surely if you are developing the system you have some
form of tcl access and are able to enter the native debugger anyway. I
entered the native debugger in the browser window in about 1998 when
wintegrate was released as an activex component, not the same thing i
admit, but shows it is nothing new.

And before wintegrate and accuterm you had access to the basic debugger
from a trusty Wyse terminal (and just to show there is nothing new
under the sun, I note Pete @ AccuSoft has just added Prism P30
emulation. Personally I think it is FANTASTIC that there has been a
request for this [I assume he didn't do the work "for fun", and yet :-]

I think the thing that Chandru (& Frosty?) "gets" is the fact that
there ISN'T an activeX terminal emulator running a telnet session in
the equation! Your experience is obviously different, so you see no
advantage - that is fine, and more power to you!


Ross - on your point about entering the debugger via a live site,
without establishing a vpn to get shell acces, i presume this was just
an example of what you can do, but i have to say, if my customers knew
i could enter the debugger on their public internet site they would
through a fit !! ;) Many of them dont even allow shell access at all
to the live system, only dev and test.

Not all Visage applications are deployed to Public internet sites.
Indeed the majority of developments are for mission critical systems
deployed WITHIN the organization, or specific trading circles, rather
than being open to the public - this slightly different emphasis may
give a better understanding of where/how the feature might be used.

You are, of course, correct that it probably (definately) would be
"foolish" to enable this capability on a public web site. That is why
you can selectively enable the option (like all of the "extra baggage"
features that Tony refers to) - if you don't want it, don't use it, but
the facility is there if you ever find you have such a need in the
future (like all of the other features that Tony dismisses as "too
much":-)


I am sure Ross's debugging functionality is great, and another way of
doing things, but I feel strongly it is not proof of visage being a
better product than designbais. I have never seen visage so can not
honestly compare, but most of the arguments I have heard against DB
are, for most people i know, completely irrelevant.

My comment was meant not to prove that Visage is "better" than DB (or
any other product for that matter), but was rather a response to Tony's
request for something "new".

Compared to the "debug dumps" I see from Public websites developed with
..NET and ASP when scripts or components fail (I saw a classic "server
too busy" error this week with just 150 threads!), I thought this
qualified, and that he would have appreciated the technology & concept
.... apparently I was mistaken (yet again).

Ross Ferris
Stamina Software
Visage > Better by Design!

.

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