Re: OpenQM doco in Wiki

Comments in line. BobJ

"Peter McMurray" <excalibur21@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:VSewg.8776$tE5.7018@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi Bob
By validation I assume that you mean whether or not a field entry is
numeric, alphabetic etc and of the correct length with perhaps a limit or
a string involved. Surely most 4gls would do this without needing
additional code, you would just send them a list of parameters. I am
assuming this as I consider it to be so basic and I have only just started
looking at other peoples methods.

I include checking things the presense of an item in one or more
files but not checking the details. For instance, check that it is
in the customer file but don't check the current status. Since I check this
at the client without connectng to the server, I'm really only checkint that
it WAS a valid customer last time I was connected.

You should be happy with your environment we have ISDN/Satellite only.
However we find ISDN is more than sufficient for green screen with
accuracy and will be testing windows soon. Admittedly we have always used
protected screen features so resetting a data entry screen needs two
characters only.

The satellite connection works well even over a VPN and even with
the latency for Pick green screens but becomes a show stopper when you get
to a browser - and the browser is ubiquitous. At leas it is if you deal
witrh clients over whom you have no control. The problem, I think, is the
fact that a key stroke becomes a packet and the packet takes at least two
round trips. The travel time is not much but the wait at the airport is
terrible.
My bottom line is that I am facing the giant mountain called dot net.
It is easy to do "hello, world" but that app doesn't sell well. As I gain
a little familiarity with VS I see the whole thing becoming a little easier.
For instance, I can compose a flat file set that represents everything that
I have in a MV structure and it doesn't seem to be as big as I thought it
would be. It uses more "files" and more disk but so does everything now.
To me at least the secret is not trying to solve the programming problems
with SQL. Many to many joins are often simple if you use the multiple
select approach rather than trying to compose a convoluted query. In fact,
using the programming language instead of SQL allows - even favors - using
the good old MV approach. Nest the repeating items when it makes sense to
do so.

I am currently looking at several methods; a windows api loaded on the
user, Cache and Designbais. I am leaving Cache until the multivalue API
is officially released, I must admit working through their standard demo
was eye-opening - debugging explorer environments is not easy. Designbais
I shall wait for the coming release as I am heavily into Briz at the
moment.
The "heavy weight " contender in Binary Star I may look closer later along
with Visage whose bit technology is extremely interesting. However it
still boils down to having interested clients who want to pay for the
finished product.
Sounds familiar. You have gone farther down that road than I, but
I'm not being held back by success. I no longer havea large client base
married to Pick. The problem with most of the verticals is that they work
well, they are fast, and they are stable requiring little maintence and rare
support. Neither the customer or the developer is eager to change.

Also the harder it is to learn I think the less likely is its
takeup. I have noticed a massive difference between the power programmers
(maybe 10% of the real world) and the rest who in the Pick world at least
tend to be analyst/programmers - the easier it is to implement the design
the better they like it. The latter when faced with 3000+ objects tend to
freak out, if however they are presented with a few ways of presentation
and a few ways of input they work wonders
I think that you are being too generous. I have always maintained
that 5% of the programmers do 95% of the good work..
BobJ

Peter McMurray
"BobJ" <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Y00wg.120$VH2.20501@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The 'direct access' is one of the real strong points of old fashioned
serial-like connections. You can validate every key stroke without
noticeable delay. If one of the clients is very remote and uses a slow
modem or a satellite broad band then there is a very distinct and
distasteful delay between "send" and seeing something happen. So off
loading the validation has real value even if there is an occasional
second burp because the server has been updated while the client was
"away".

My little hobby project - what else is an old man to do - has a network
of four computers as follows:
Ka band satellite - The Server is here and there is latency. The
server will move to the DSL when the software is stable.
Sprint DSL.
Adelphia Cable Broad Band. This one is in a very small town near Lake
Okeechobee, Fl. and suffers frequent service interruptions.
Roving laptop that connects any way it can.
The current solution is to download the input programs and the basis for
validation when the remote computer first connects. Obviously there is a
little bit of configuration management taking place here so downloads
aren't done if they are not needed. If the remote computer sends
something that is not valid then the download is repeated on the
assumption that the two systems are merely out of synch. Works, but
strange things can happen and it takes a lot of logic to prevent the last
gasp effort, which is reboot and reconnect.
This is running albeit in Beta on jBase, Universe, and QM. The server
can be either jBase or Universe but hasn't been tested with QM yet.
Probably works there as well because QM works very well and may be the
final choice. FWIW I tried Cache` but it was too big a shift in thinking
to permit a good test without a lot of effort so I dropped it without
prejudice.
Any thoughts will be appreciated..
BobJ
"Peter McMurray" <excalibur21@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:6p%vg.8452$tE5.1555@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi
I agree about reducing work but what sort of work is anyone needing to
do that is not covered by the 4gl itself. I would definitely disagree
about business rules being on the client. Database look-ups are surely
covered in any 4gl by table loading. I remember that you had an
excellent Law & Order application, surely the felon photographs should
be on the server even though they do represent a load. As for the wider
internet ie those outside the internal structure of the company then
nothing should be on the clent.
Am I answering my own question? One must differentiate between internal
and external use. Internally OK load all the manuals to each machine
but you must still check for changes every time they are used. No I
still cannot come up with an example. That does not mean it is wrong,
just that I have no examples, particularly for Javascript which is
hardly the language for heavy maths, come to think of it neither is Pick
Basic.
In my own experience the one thing I regret in my switch to Windows is
that I allowed direct access to the screen, it worked great for 25 years
but now I have got to rewrite that bit wheras the parameterised stuff is
a Breeze.
Peter McMurray
"Mark Brown" <mbrown@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:HSZvg.31330$uy3.14827@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"Peter McMurray" <excalibur21@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:FiZvg.8395$tE5.5081@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi Frosty
I am interested in why you want to add javascript. Surely it is the
standardisation of the Display - Presentation Layer - that is one of
the major benefits of any 4gl.
Surely all rules type testing should be at the server end.
Peter McMurray

That's not neccessarily true. The more load we can place (easily) on
the client the better. Thin client, thick client, distributed
processing. Where do you want to do the work? On your one in-house
server, or the super computer that is the 5,000 parallel processors of
your internet users?

Mark









.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: RWW Disconnecting
    ... I have been connected from a remote site for about 3 ... DHCP server and even a wireless access ... the key codes to for Internet access. ... Client Workstations} ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs)
  • Re: RWW Disconnecting
    ... Server to test the issue. ... I understand that remote client encounts following error message when RWW ... I strongly suggest that we rerun the Configure E-mail and Internet ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs)
  • RE: Error.htm when using connectcomputer
    ... On the SBS server, run Set Up Computer Wizard to create all the remote ... Under Client Applications, uncheck everything except ... Start Internet Explorer. ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs)
  • Re: OpenQM doco in Wiki
    ... By validation I assume that you mean whether or not a field entry is ... Ka band satellite - The Server is here and there is latency. ... business rules being on the client. ... As for the wider internet ie those ...
    (comp.databases.pick)
  • Re: RWW Disconnecting
    ... I understand that remote client encounts following error message when RWW ... I strongly suggest that we rerun the Configure E-mail and Internet ... 825763 How to configure Internet access in Windows Small Business Server ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs)
Loading