Re: Long Discussion Re Relational

To explain what I mean I'll use Visual Studio and Oracle as an equivalent...

The development tool is Visual Studio.

Oracle comes with an ado.net connectivity dll... Visual studio doesn't
install anything on Oracle to support development with VS.

All the products we have discussed, I believe span both these. I think
it's essential that the Multi-Valu offering will "out-of-the-box" support
all the "standard" connectivity methodologies without requiring add-ins for
each one...

Does that make more sense?

Simon
"Tony Gravagno" <g6q3x9lu53001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:7205s1lv9nvckh2907npg0jeset1uer64r@xxxxxxxxxx
> "Simon Verona" wrote:
>
>>With regard to Tools.. I believe that there are two types of tools...
>>"Development" tools like Visual Studio, Osmosis, Visage and "Developer"
>>tools like jRCS/jDP . The former is best left seperate, but I firmly
>>believe that the latter should be part of the product - whether thats
>>bundled by jBase (taking that as an example I know) or by the disributor I
>>don't know.
>
> Sorry, could you expand on that? Particularly the distinction between
> development and developer tools.
>
>
>>Also, to market MV more successfully, we will defo need better (By better
>>I
>>mean visual) database tools bundled with the database - including an
>>account
>>/ file designer / dictionary editor and a visual databasic editor (I can't
>>believe a new user would be happy using ED or JED on jBase for
>>example!!!).
>>built in. This is a task that a Distributor such as yourself could take
>>on
>>Tony, without co-operation from jBASE - though it would be nice to see
>>them
>>involved..
>
> FWIW, mv.NET includes all of those things and so does OSMOSiS. This
> is one of the reasons why I've adopted these products. (I guess I'm
> not doing a very good job of explaining them yet.)
> For mv.NET, the Data Manager is embedded into Visual Studio for the
> developer, but it's also a free stand-alone component for end-users
> who have some product based on mv.NET.
> For OSMOSiS, the BASIC editor, file manager, and system admin tools
> are all built into the IDE.
>
> As a jBASE Distributor, I do intend to provide an open source,
> cross-platform admin utility that does similar things and more, but a
> single session license for mv.NET will be required, it won't come free
> with the DBMS. For anyone else, I'll be happy to sell the same
> cross-platform utility with source and support.
>
> What you're saying though is that this should come from the MV vendor.
> Yes, of course admin tools should come from the vendor, but jExplorer
> stinks, and so does the D3 File Manager and UniAdmin. The vendors
> have had their opportunity, this is why I think things like this
> should be in the domain of the 3rd-party market. Let's stop standing
> on pompous principle that the MV vendors "should" do things. We know
> they haven't and they won't so if we want something like system admin
> tools, we need to provide them ourselves.
>
> The problem I see is this attitude: "I refuse to buy third-party tools
> that should come from my vendor." In the mean time, VARs don't sell
> apps to new markets because they don't have an app GUI or GUI admin
> tools. Unless VARs agree to spend money to enhance their applications
> for resale, we're never going to get anywhere. No matter how much
> marketing we do, no one will sell product unless there is an offering
> competitive with others.
>
> If we want to compare MV to Relational, just have a look at the "face"
> of the relational model: MS Access is a very pretty wrapper around
> the JET database engine. DB2 and Oracle are installed with a number
> of admin programs. MySQL has a number of admin tools, free and
> for-fee, thick and thin client. SQL Server Express is a free GUI
> environment. MV products "should" have these things, but if they
> don't then MV VARs need to demand such things from another source -
> and be willing to pay for them.
>
> Tony
> TG@ removethisNebula-RnD.com
>
>


.

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