Re: Long Discussion Re Relational


Bill H wrote:

> Simon:
>
> I've maintained for years that what the MV world needs is:
>
> 1) more rational licensing,
> 2) development and administration tools (TOOLS), and
> 3) connectivity.
>
> This thread posited a need for a MV2006 standard, which, IMHO of course, is
> an excellent idea.
>
> I also agree with you that "character based" improvements aren't as
> effective as connectivity improvements. One of the great aspects of an MV
> system is the fact that it's both a dbms and an application server. There's
> no need to make it a print server, for instance; even for itself. :-)
>
> A UV query language with standard export functionality (like DOWNLOAD),
> standardized BASIC statement/functions syntax, simple connectivity using
> standard ADO, ADO.NET,

Wandering OT again I'm afraid but...

I was thinking a couple of weeks back that the "publisher-subscriber"
thing could be implemented at the PickBasic file-IO subroutine level.
The same phantom process that maintains pessimistic locks for
non-connection-persistent web apps could be the publisher. The app
doing the work on the server for a particular browser instance could,
instead of taking a pessimistic lock, subscribe to various data, and be
notified by the publisher whenever that data changes. Not fully thought
through yet...

Mike.

> Java, and LAMP tools would be an excellent start.
> However, since IBM is the largest supplier of MV products, their endorsement
> would be helpful. :-)
>
> Bill
>
> "Simon Verona" <nomail@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:43bd9d27$0$2690$ed2619ec@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Bruce
> >
> > I'm aware of the advances in OpenQM, also of things like FMT, EVAL etc
> > which I believe originate in U2 (Universe specifically) and which I've
> > also seen in jBASE.
> >
> > The sorts of "advances" I'm thinking of are things like SQL joins. EVAL
> > goes someway towards that, but I would like to say something like
> > localdict.secondfile.remotedict to automatically take the result of a
> > local dictionary, translate automatically to that item in a second file
> > and then process the remotedict there. I don't think that any
> > multi-value variant can do this sort of thing.
> >
> > Personally, I don't really thing advancing character presentation of data
> > in SORT/LIST is really a good use of development time - I'd rather focus
> > perhaps on automatic export to an html table with a Style *** to
> > format... I don't hear much call for character applications these days
> > (though I'm not saying that that is necessarily a good thing!).
> >
> > IMHO MV databases need to be presented better as a back end database -
> > using front end database access using ado/ado.net/php/java etc - rather
> > than as an al encompassing development environment. Databasic almost
> > becomes a "Store procedure" scripting language (and a good one at that).
> > ACCESS becomes an "SQL" equivalent.
> >
> > I don't think that many of the multi-value products are far away from
> > this, but they all do it in different ways - and for most it doesn't all
> > feel "cohesive" as such - none (unless you can correct me) allow you
> > "bind" a dynamic array to a file so that you can update by field name
> > rather than amc,vmc,svmc for example.
> >
> > Just 2 cents worth.
> >
> > Simon
> > "Bruce Nichol" <reverse_ecurb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> > news:kh5rr1du4st6li7e4s0uri5jnttmrvk33u@xxxxxxxxxx
> >> Goo'day, Simon,
> >>
> >> On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:39:50 -0000, "Simon Verona" <nomail@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>I think thats exactly my point, in terms of feature functionality... the
> >>>MV
> >>>systems themselves seem to have remained static in recent years (no
> >>>advances
> >>>in English/Access for example).
> >>
> >> Perhaps a quick swing over to OpenQM to have a look at their
> >> improvements to the "old" English/Access and even UV's RetrieVe might
> >> be in order.
> >>
> >> Whilst this is not a complete list, OpenQM offers things like PAN for
> >> screen-based enquiries to allow for reports wider than your current
> >> TERM and SCROLL to permit page scrolling backwards and forwards over a
> >> report.
> >>
> >> Other exciting things include an OVERLAY for printed reports to permit
> >> a certain amount of "presentation improvements" to the page ....
> >>
> >> There are others : DELIMITER to denote what the "column delimiter" is
> >> for "reports" going off to spreadsheets, etc,
> >>
> >> There are also many things that have been available with, for example,
> >> UV that AFAIK are not available with the D3 product - FMT, EVAL,
> >> alternate column headings, etc...
> >>
> >> And, there are soon to be other enhancements (next week?) from my wish
> >> list.... coloured report headings/totals to the screen, anyone?
> >>
> >>>
> >>>When I discuss a new standard - I don't mean just ratifying what is
> >>>already
> >>>present, but to actually "push" the technology forward - so for example
> >>>MV
> >>>products could decalre themselves MV2006 compliant.
> >>>
> >>>Regards
> >>>Simon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"obsolete_john" <obsolete_john@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >>>news:1136468869.580977.52610@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>
> >>>> Tony Gravagno wrote:
> >>>>> Exactly. It's called "marketing".
> >>>> ...
> >>>>> Pick had TCL and
> >>>>> English/Access/Recall, but just didn't tell anyone.
> >>>> ...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well folks, when we have no community agency for doing marketing, this
> >>>>> is what we get.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Whateva..
> >>>>> T
> >>>>
> >>>> Tony, etal:
> >>>>
> >>>> I believe that the MV subculture will survive in little pockets around
> >>>> the world for many decades,
> >>>>
> >>>> BUT it will take years and years to overcome the non-image /
> >>>> counterculture stigma that we gained back in the '70s & '80s. We never
> >>>> had an industry champion to bring the quiet victories out of the
> >>>> shadows into the spotlight.
> >>>>
> >>>> MV is winning battles to this day, but known only to insiders on the
> >>>> vendor sales force (it's always been that way, very proprietary),
> >>>> "secret success".
> >>>>
> >>>> I will make a technical suggestion for some energetic soul. To quote
> >>>> *** (he was referring to religion) -- "It's time for a new book!".
> >>>> Complete the project, finish the system.
> >>>>
> >>>> The seminal development effort was overwhelmed by early partial success
> >>>> (and distractions). The maintenance of the day to day, version control
> >>>> issues became the focus. Subsequent licensees / look-alikes focused on
> >>>> replication of functionality. I'm sure occasionally someone thought
> >>>> about high-order theoretical goals, but there hasn't been a revolution.
> >>>>
> >>>> John Bohner
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Bruce Nichol
> >> Talon Computer Services
> >> ALBURY NSW Australia
> >>
> >> http://www.taloncs.com.au
> >>
> >> If it ain't broke, fix it until it is....
> >
> >

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