Re: How do we get there from here?
- From: "Glen B" <no$pamwebmaster@no$pamforallspec.com>
- Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:01:42 -0400
comments embedded
<michael@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1130378466.246371.127060@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> G'day Glen
>
> "tokenized static templates" - is that like when someone uses FrontPage
> or DreamWeaver or whatever to generate a page of markup (template) with
> something like ##FileABCAtt6## (tokens) where the data is to go?
Yes, or you could dynamically generate your own static pages using
dataBASIC and page format parameters. That way you don't have to manually
edit any HTML, just the location of objects, the content, and how it is
styled. I haven't gotten that far yet, mostly because I want a lot more
control over my pages.
> That's OK up to a point. How do you cater for variable depth tables?
> Don't you have to loop generating n lines of markup for each row - and
> then sub the whole of that generated markup into the template? Forgive
Variable depth tables? I don't follow you. Any token can be replaced with
anything your mind can dream up. It could be a 100 column, 300 row table
layed out on the fly, a simple IMG tag, or even an entire HTML document. I
think that's what you were saying above, but I'm not exactly sure.
> my ignorance and laziness but what's an SSI call? You don't just mean a
SSI is an Apache feature where local HTML (or more correctly SHTML) files
are parsed by the server before sending them to the client. Any server
directives are handled based on the directive type. For example,
<!--include --> tags will insert CGI virtual content(CGI generated stuff
like FC output) or local content into the document where that tag is
located - just like a normal token. ASP has similar features under IIS, but
I honestly think that what's there is overkill when you only need to include
content. PHP scripting provides 10 times the features of both of these
options and it will run under most platforms. The main drawback with PHP is
having to install, configure, and _secure_ your PHP site installation.
<HTML>
<!-- include
virtual="http://myserver.com/cgi-bin/fccgi.exe?w3exec=get.my.header"; -->
put in some static body content and some ##TAGS##.
<!-- include
virtual="http://myserver.com/cgi-bin/fccgi.exe?w3exec=get.my.footer"; -->
</HTML>
> post initiated by a submit? The header and footer templates I'm
> familiar with (as would be anyone who has used FlashCONNECT) - but I'm
> not clear on how they "completely change states based on the browser
> session". Is it that you use them for a collection of hidden fields?
Most of the static pages we have is what you see above. It's a mixture of
SSI calls, tags, and a little static HTML code. The header and footer are
both tokenized, so the content in them is session driven by cookies, state
files, and URL post/get parameters. The shopping cart tag/ling and
"myaccount login/logout" link are both session driven.
So, what's so special about all that? Nothing really. You can do it with
Perl, PHP, and just about any other scripting language. The beauty of how
it's implemented is the fact that apart from a couple of token subs in MV, I
didn't have to program anything special. There is some javascript for
certain functions of checkout and the main menu is JS, but in general the
web site is JS free, scripting free, yet it is still completely session
driven.
> Sorry if that's way off the mark. The JS product menus - is it that
> you're generating javascript? This sounds interesting - if you need a
> menu to navigate products, is it along bill-of-materials lines?
Yes, well not at each browser hit. The product and vendor menus are
generated by our software on a nightly basis or if someone runs the update
tool. The JS data is generated from a product+category tree and then
automatically SCP'd over to our webserver. Is that special? No, not if
you're used to using MySQL and PHP to build dynamic menus everytime someone
clicks a link. This is just a good example of how something as simple an
idea as tokens can eliminate a huge amount of maintance, increase server
performance, and still achieve dynamic presentation.
>
> The OP, what I was attempting, was to see who had gone down which roads
> and what they'd encountered along the way (good or bad things). I'm
> particularly interested to hear back from one chap who mentioned he was
> doing things with xForms a while back. Also - I've seen the way some
> people are doing things and, in some cases, they seem to have, if not
> burnt, then severely weakened the bridges between the starting post
> (pure Pick - options all open) and where they have taken their
> development efforts to date.
>
> Mike.
>
I have gone down a lot of roads in my 10+ years of web development. Each
one had good points and bad points, but those are _always_ relative to the
project in focus. You can't judge the road handling capabilities of a
vehicle if you run it in stop-n-go traffic. If you have a specific example
of an idea you want to bring to fruition, then it would be much easier to
make suggestions on which technologies should be reviewed for their
pros/cons. Saying that xForms/PHP/MV.NET/etc works the best of all
technologies to make MV web savvy is totally ignorant and you really should
ignore the person preaching about the technology that just happens to be in
the spotlight at the moment. :P
Glen
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