Re: Browser support was Re: New Group for DesignBAIS

Hi Dawn,

> > Is 'I want to use' the operative phrase here?
>
> Sorry - I didn't make it clear that I'm the customer and the developer
> in this case. I, as the customer, have selected tools & standards
> based on many factors, thereby constraining me, the developer.

Right. With that said may I ask how your reply would have related to a
comment about design considerations for a 'presence' web site?
-Tom

> > I have been doing web
> > design work for nearly ten years. In this time only once have I had a
> > client or prospect request any specific technology:
> >
> > A young pizza shop owner who was also a geek wannabe had come across a
> > Java applet that did a sort of jigsaw thing, requiring the correct
> > icons (pieces) to be dragged to the appropriate places. This fellow
> > asked explicitly if I would write a similar applet to allow people to
> > order pizzas by dragging pepperoni, mushrooms, etc. onto the pizza.
> >
> > I did so and very soon we got rid of it. Why? Beyond being ... well
> > sort
> > of silly, maintenance was awful. To change services at all we had to
> > create new icons and rewrite the applet. And it was well, sort of
> > silly.
> >
> > > The number of hoops you
> > > have to jump through just to support both IE and Firefox current
> > > versions is a headache. Supporting other browsers and older versions
> > > of these is an expense that might not be worth the benefits.
> >
> > Can you give me an example of the sort of specs that require you to
> > use such bleeding edge technology that you intentionally reduce your
> > clients' target audience?
>
> My blankety blank customer is requiring that I try to use what she
> thinks college students who want to develop Web-UI database software
> applications should learn so she doesn't teach something she hasn't
> tried, but does teach something that might still have a chance of being
> relatively current when they graduate. This includes using AJAX and
> attempting to use XHTML & CSS before jumping in and coding something in
> JavaScript, recognizing that a web graphic designer is more likely to
> be successful if they don't have to make changes to code. She also
> wants clean, maintainable code and wants to avoid using html tables for
> layout.
>
> > In my experience, doing the 'fancy stuff'
> > on the server and using widely supported technology to deliver it to
> > as many browsers as possible has been the best approach.
>
> Since I want a rich UI experience, I'm using what is now called AJAX,
> so there is a lot of JavaScript passing xml back and forth to the
> server (with PHP or Perl & Apache or Java & tomcat there). If all of
> your code runs on the server, such as with PHP, it uses the same
> interpreter & run-time envirnoment independent of browser. JavaScript
> is interpreted by a different interpreter in each version of each
> browser, however.
>
> > And for the record, 'fancy stuff' isn't used here in the sense of
> > 'Wohoo, I just got a Flash compiler', it is used more in the sense of
> > delivering meaningful and dynamic content.
>
> Understood. I'm not there yet with the dynamic content -- just
> starting to work with XMLHttpRequest objects.
>
> > A lot of my web work is for photographers, models and artists. This
> > community as a whole has a much higher tolerance for visual gimcrackery
> > and bandwidth wastage. Even in that community, most professionals feel
> > that a simple, easy to navigate web site that presents useful
> > information is the answer to most questions.
>
> I just tossed in a first draft of what I came up with at
> www.tincatgroup.com -- clearly no graphic designers in the mix, and I
> came close to navigation without JavaScript, but there are bugs (notice
> when you select from a dropdown menu, the highlighting is not aligned
> with the selection -- I've spent hours on it so feel free to debug it
> for me ;-)
>
> > > But if you do have a list you think is a good one for which browsers to
> >
> > That is pretty easy. Read your clients' log files. Analog, etc. can
> > simplify this task. I think Netcraft has browser surveys as well.
>
> If someone can't use the site, then that translates into what? Not
> dollars lost unless I have to start paying people if they didn't have a
> satisfying experience. I'm planning to start writing a column/weblog
> this Fall. Even if I did have a clear economic model for my web site,
> other than it supporting my research and writing, how do I know which
> of the folks navigating to my site are in my target audience?
>
> > > test out along with a means of testing each (e,g. URL), let me know.
> >
> > Easy also, use the results acquired above and load your pages ;-)
>
> I know there are sites out there to test out various pda browsers, but
> I haven't bothered to look for them. Thanks. --dawn

.

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