Re: SharePoint Services

Aye-yie-yie ... I'm so confused! LOL
Comments inserted below.
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"Albert D. Kallal" <PleaseNOOOsPAMmkallal@xxxxxxx> wrote in message news:0GeFl.42403$ua7.25373@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Don Leverton" <NoDamnSpam@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:91eFl.22142$Db2.13250@xxxxxxxxxxx

Enter the SharePoint idea.
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For the purposes of my app ... I'm under the impression that the data tables ("lists") can be uploaded to a SharePoint location, and that read / edit permissions could be enabled for different users???

Correct. Keep in mind there there are size (performance) limitations in terms of the size of these SharePoint linked tables. While you can stuff 80,000 rows into one of a share point lifts, I would suggest that if the using this over and the kind of general intranet connection, I would keep the size of those tables below 10,000 records, in fact in the 6000 record range is OK.
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What I have in mind is a relatively simple app to record, primarily customer special orders for auto parts at our store(s).
Right now it being done with pen and paper in something appropriately (?) called "The Bible" ... because we swear on it constantly.
It's a mess of mammoth proportions ...

Think 1960's technology. Envision the guy with tape on the bridge of his glasses and with the pocket-protector. Yeah, it's like that ... a genuine time warp. There used to be a 60-something guy whose SOLE responsibility was to order the parts and attempt to keep some semblance of order in this archaic system. His prize possession was a rolodex of suppliers ... probably a couple or three hundred cards.
He was bitter when he wasn't re-hired, and took them with him under his arm when he left. (Fine by me! LOL)

We're trying to move on into the 90's here (sarcastic smile) ... and do some on-line ordering from several vendors that do offer that kind of capability.
So naturally, I have created "tblSuppliers" which includes hyperlinks and login information in order to facilitate that process.

I've managed to export a customer list from the Amador AutoPoint Software .... which was in turn imported from another POS (dual meaning there) text-based software program from Rinax.

Again ... it's in a sorry state, too.
CUSTOMER NAME field contains data in: "FirstName LastName", "LastName, FirstName", " CompanyName", "NumberedCompany", and even a few "We're Playing House" (I.e. "John Smith and / or Jane Doe") formats. Yeah, we're small-town Alberta. Don't get me started on how phone numbers were entered ... but I have that fixed.

So OK ... we're talking maybe 3000 records of customers with personal and / or corporate accounts. Some of which are "repeats" because we had 4 branches in 4 neighboring small towns. It was common for customers to have accounts in more than one store / town ... which meant more than one statement. Honestly, it couldn't get much more complex and bizarre than it was. This Amador system at least allows billing to ONE account at all 3 of the stores that we bought out. (The original owner retained one of them.)

Ok... not every customer that walks in is going to have a charge account. The "Bible" includes many "Jim. 555-1234" type entries.
Is that a home, work, or cell number? Who knows!?

It's going to be my intention to offer to have customers fill out "Contact Details" forms as a service to them. When they want to order something, simply ask them if we have them in our database yet ... (similar to visiting Future Shop or The Source).

Yes, I have discovered that many people will have the same phone number, whether it's a father / son / brother scenario ... or maybe they're giving us a work number. I can deal with that ... with a pop-up form that displays possible duplicates. Recording the "walk-in" customers could easily double or triple the number of records?

So far we have suppliers and customers. Now it's time to tie in the parts being ordered. A single instance might include multiple parts being ordered, with a strong chance that they might even be coming from different suppliers .... shipped by different methods, and arriving on different dates.

That will be the biggest table, I would imagine. I'm envisioning an "archive" feature being incorporated to keep the record count down. Perhaps archiving once per month for the prior 6 months? No doubt there will be warranty situations ... and having access to that kind of data might be useful.

----------- Finished product vision:
A customer comes in wanting to know if their order has arrived.

Name?
Phone Number?
OK ... yup, I see that Don had ordered and ignition coil for you last Thursday, and it's here now. It looks like you've already picked up the plugs and wires that Brad you ordered for you on the previous weekend, right? I'm still waiting on that set of center caps that were back-ordered from ____ in ___________ 3 weeks ago ... I had better check on those for you again today.

Could I really imagine having that kind of information at my fingertips? Oh yeah ...
Even if the guy was in one of the other stores ... asking "Where is it?" ... but that's just still a fantasy. LOL





if you have some typical sable sizes with 50,000, or even 100,000 records, then I'll suggest that you use a SQL server as the backend and link that over the Internet in place of sharepoint.


Each location / user PC could have a run-time version and the MDE stored locally, and have these SharePoint "lists" (on the internet) as the BE?

correct, but keep in mind that the "offline" mode does not work for the runtime version. What this means is that once you link your tables to share point, if you have the full version of access, you can click on the offline mode, and then the traveling salesman can go on the road or go to some salmon are some of entropy is some location where they don't have a good Internet or any Internet at all. Once they back to some similar to Civilized palce like a good wifi connection at their local coffee shop, then they can go back "on line" and their changes are synchronized for automatically. so a big feature the full version as compared to the runtime version is is offline mode, which in effect is really recognize shun for you for free with no additional programming required.
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Hmmm ... I've written a little code that tests to see if the linked tables are available at the "usual" location (which is either on the network share at work, or in the My Documents folder of my home PC. I'm thinking that this code could be reworked to default to a "stored copy" on the salesman's laptop. Not up-to-the-minute ... but he could phone the store with what he knows, and ask if there was any newer information.


Is there a charge for using these "SharePoint Services"?

This is kind of like asking is there a charge to host your web site? if you are to have some company servers with Internet server services running on them, then it won't cost you anything.

So if your company does not have SharePoint up and running now, then you'll have to purchase a setup and install share point services. Or you can use the "on-line" edition from Microsoft called office live.com. Office live is really great because it is ShaerPoint for free. The 1st 5 users and the first 50 megs of data storage is free. after that you can purchase additional users and additional storage. kind amazing that you get the setup for free. When I entered this computer business many years ago, a five user computer with a 20MB drive was about $35,000.00. Now it is free, and you can have it up and running and less time it takes for me to write this post to you.
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No, we do not have SharePoint Services.
I had a quick look at this, and I think what you are referring to is "Office Live Small business" which is indeed very affordable.
It does say there that Word, Excel, and Powerpoint documents can be uploaded and opened from that location directly ... but not Access.
Are you saying that I could still have the backend (BE) stored there, and just link to them with an MDE stored locally?


Could I do the same thing using our existing "intranet"?

if your plan is to use sharepoint, and you have share point running in your company now, then yes you can (and should consider this). However if you do not have share point services setup, nor do you have the expertise and training and resource personnel to run and set up those servers + SharePoint, **if** you users NOW have some type of connection to you network (a vpn), then then I think the easiest and least amount of effort would be to simply put the backend database on SQL server and and link your front ends to that back end user. this approach is better than share point for seveal erasons:

- you don't have the same performance and table size limitations like you do and share point as I mentioned. also keep in mind that linked tables to share point to not have a reference will integrity to nor do they have cascade deletes like SQL server does.

- Far lower costs and less work because you don't have to learn share point. Setting up SQL server is free today and is very low cost, and quite easy to learn. so full of people are to have a connection to your network, then you can get them connected to SQL server quite easily.

Again, I had a quick look, and found "Microsoft SQL Server Express" which appears to be free.
( http://www.microsoft.com/express/sql/download/ )

If I could talk to the Amador people ... who are the ones who have set up this VPN for us ... perhaps they would allow the space for this on the server? If it's a VPN and the server resides within this protected area, the only "downside" might be that customers would not have access to this data .... Do I have the concept correct? If so ... that is just fine. This application is designed to be for store staff only ... in all 3 branches would be ideal, actually.


- however don't underestimate the usefulness of share point, as it allows document sharing, allows you to share data + documents with customers. and as mention it supports the offline replication mode for access databases if you need this feature.

Office2007 also offers some sort of free file storage space, but it looks like only Word, Excel, and Powerpoint (?) documents can be opened and viewed directly online?


Not really...access tables can also be opened with a web browser. I'm tempted to publish and show you what an access table looks like from your web browser.....

I will need to be relatively careful, as my app will contain customer contact information, as well as vendor site logins / passwords ... so I don't want Joe Hacker having free access to this information either.


The above reasons one reason why share point is really good, The management of users and logons in granting permissions to view data is all built into share point in is quite easy to use. So the these details are made relatively easy for you. However, this is a moot issue if those people NOW have a connection to your corporate network. In this case, then SQL server is the most easy approach here.

So, if these people are outside of your corporate network now, then expertise and ability to set up secure connections to allow them to come into your corporate network and pull data from sql server is VERY seriuos issue. Again this type of scenario that supports the free online edition of share point, because then you don't expose your corporate network to these people and it's relatively easy to add a few users and connect them up to a shared linked table on SharePoint with "any" Internet connection and may have. Furthermore you don't have some complicated system in which these users have to be given access to your corporate network outside or when they're traveling on the road. so this issue really comes down to what kind of connection and what kind of access is they have now, or how easy you can get them access to corporate network.

As I said the beauty of "office live" on line share point is you can have SharePoint up and running and be testing a linked table in less time it takes for me to write up his post...

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You make it sound so easy !... LOL
Not so for a guy that really hasn't played around with it much yet.
I'll "phart around" with it for a while, as time permits, though.
I do enjoy SMALL challenges.


So, keep in mind that linked lists in share point are not as flexible as "related tables" we have in access or when we link to sql server. So, if you have a highly complex access application with many related tables and many rows in those tables, then I don't think sharepoint is the solution right now for you.

Not all THAT complex, YET.
The present model includes about 9 tables, centered on "tblOrderDetails"
Speed is not the biggest concern, especially when I shudder to think how much time we are wasting with the current "Bible" system.

Thanks again,
Don



--
Albert D. Kallal (Access MVP)
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
pleaseNOOSpamKallal@xxxxxxx


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