Re: Sun's Niagara is out

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 03:25:03 -0500, Bill Todd <billtodd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

>Robert Klute wrote:
>> On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:14:00 -0500, Bill Todd <billtodd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Robert Klute wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:51:34 +1100, Jason Ozolins
>>>><jason_abroad@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Indeed. Apparently Niagara runs SAP benchmarks quite well:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/bmseer#big_sap_sd_2_tier
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Which says that an 8 core / 32 thread SunFire T2000 achieved 950 SAP SD
>>>>users using Solaris/MaxDB. vs
>>>>
>>>>a 4 core / 4 thread HP DL580 at 937 SD users (Windows/SQL Server)
>>>>a 4 core / 4 thread HP rx4640 at 880 SD users (HP-UX/Oracle)
>>>>a 4 core / 8 thread IBM p550 at 1000 SD users (Linux/DB2)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>What the SUN blog didn't mention was
>>>>a 4 core HP BL25p at 974 SD users (Windows/SQL Server)
>>>>an 8 core HP rx7620 at 1240 SD users (Windows/SQL Server)
>>>>an 8 core HP rx4640 at 1320 SD users (HP-UX/Oracle)
>>>>a 4 core IBM p570 at 1313 SD users (AIX/DB2)
>>>
>>>The main points, of course, being that
>>>
>>>1. A single-socket Niagara box is far less expensive to purchase than
>>>any of the configurations above, and
>>
>>
>> The configuration in the SAP benchmark is at least $27K on the web site.
>
>Indeed - that's higher than I would have guessed. Then again, the DL580
>that you referred to above costs about that with almost no RAM: add the
>32 GB that it used at apparently around $13K/8GB and you're looking at
>close to $80K (plus the Microsoft software, whereas the Sun box appears
>to use open-source components).

That should be more like $3,897/8GB or $15,588 for 32GB - using 2Rank
DIMMS spread across 4 carriers.

>And the closest thing HP currently sells to the 4-processor rx4640
>system you cited seems to cost more like $34K with almost no RAM, plus
>at least another $30K (assuming that you need not use their ridiculously
>expensive high-density RAM) to bring it up the the 32 GB it used (plus,
>again, software - HP-UX and Oracle this time).


>
>By comparison, the p550 almost looks inexpensive, at under $23K for 4
>cores and including 8 GB of RAM. But the additional 24 GB that it used
>in the SAP submission likely still raises the price (plus, again,
>software - DB2 in this case) to considerably above the Niagara's.
>
>I'm not going to bother pricing out the higher-end Itanics and POWER5
>system that you mentioned, since they seem unlikely to come in lower
>than those I already looked at above (though you're welcome to let me
>know if they do).
>
>That leaves the BL25p as the sole entry in your list which might manage
>to squeak in below the Niagara system in price.
>
>> A DL385, which has the same performance (for the SAP benchmark), is more
>> like $21K
>
>Well, that's very nice (go, AMD!), but it's not one of the systems that
>you mentioned and that I commented upon (plus see estimated software
>cost below).
>
> and the incrementanl cost on a BL25p similar to the one used
>> looks to be about $13K.
>
>I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. The base processor and RAM
>configuration used in the BL25p SAP submission seems to run about $20K,
>but then it appears that you have to add things like an enclosure, power
>supply, power distribution...
>
>So I'm not sure what the final bottom line would be, but in any event
>last I knew SQL Server cost $5000 per processor for the 'standard'
>edition (Enterprise being closer to $20K/processor), so even if
>Microsoft charges only by chip rather than by core add in the $2+K OS
>license and the total system price is still likely noticeably above that
>of the Niagara system.
>
>>
>>
>>>2. A single-socket Niagara box uses far less power (and is thus far
>>>less expensive to run - and cool) than any of the configurations above.
>>
>>
>> The BL and the DL look to pull about the same amps, if not less, than
>> the T2000. The T2000 looks fully loaded - 8 cores and 32G of memory.
>
>Ah - I see that you're again attempting to ignore 6 of the 7 systems
>that you originally cited and upon which my comment was based. And well
>you should try to, given their relative power requirements.
>
>As for the AMD boxes, last I knew a single dual-core Opteron's rated
>power consumption exceeded that of the single 8-core Niagara chip - and
>both of the systems you cite above use *two* dual-core Opterons. It is
>possible that using only 16GB of RAM vs. Niagara's 32GB would cancel out
>this power disadvantage, but my impression is that it is unlikely.

I got my power consumption for the HP boxes from their power calculator
available at the HP website:

http://h30099.www3.hp.com/configurator/calc/Power%20Calculator%20Catalog.xls

I did the cost estimates by going the to respective web sites and built
a configuration that seemed to match what was listed on the SAP website.
I had to guess on some of it, but tried to guess the same way on each
configuration - like the number and size of the disk drives.

The first list of systems was what the Sun blog referenced when touting
the power of their system. The second list was just to show the results
they 'left out'. I was more interested in those results, as they didn't
make the Sun results look so rosy, and were the ones I focused on.

So, forget the DL580, the Sun blog included it because it made their box
look better. Let's not forget that this blog, like all company blogs,
is a marketing tool.

You are right I did not itemize the DL385. I did say it's performance
was similar to the blade. So, for completeness, here is the DL385
configuration:

HP DL385 2-way Dual core Opteron 275 (2.2GHz), 16GB Memory (Windows/SQL
Server) 983 SD users.

This is the box I that priced out at about $21K.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Alocated Memory Error (SQLSERVR)
    ... memory for the process dropped from 990 to 330. ... to grab available RAM for performance reasons, ... configured alert threshold rather than an error in MSDE configuration. ... Server 2000 SP4, ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.server.sbs)
  • Hi freq welders and Plasma cutters
    ... switched to a single NPN configuration. ... Now you can plug into 110vac, and get full power. ... expensive to control their voltage. ... wires in it are heat sinks, ...
    (rec.crafts.metalworking)
  • RE: Batch File using Powercfg.exe Wont Run
    ... I wonder what the power scheme is when nobody is logged on. ... when users log on these Windows XP ... computers, the power configuration doesn't change. ...
    (microsoft.public.windows.group_policy)
  • Re: No Hibernation
    ... ACPI Uniprocessor PC is an Advanced Configuration and Power ... Does that mean that WinXP hasn't been configured to enable hibernation? ...
    (microsoft.public.windowsxp.general)
  • Re: A3000 CMOS corrupt help!!
    ... The machine is RISCOS 2.00 with 4MB ram and a watford electronics IDE ... Configuration status: ... I've tried power on delete and power on R to no avail, ... settings in status for memory are reduced by a quarter. ...
    (comp.sys.acorn.hardware)